Audirvana 3.5 not outputting DOP64 to CCA streamer via DAC

Connection with external Audio Devices USB DAC
1

Hi all,

So I just received the SMSL Raw-MDA yesterday, my first DAC and I love it! however I have a huge DSD collection which I’m trying to play on the DAC via streamer (Chromecast Audio) but it shows as PCM 92 on the DAC screen.

Just a breakdown on my setup:

Audirvana on Mac playing DSD files, oversampling and DOP 1.1 enabled. USB-C connection or streaming to CCA via BubbleUPNP DLNA

Via USB: DOP64 works fine and sounds great.

Via CCA toslink connected to optical input on the DAC: DSD files shows as PCM 92 and volume sounds really low compared to the USB-C.

Now SMSL in the specs it mention it can play DOP64 on optical and COAX so not sure what’s the issue?

In trying to troubleshoot I found out that there is DOP options in Audirvana external headphones output, macbook speakers but not DLNA. Is DLNA limited to 92?

Is optical limited and can’t output DOP64? so why SMSL outlined it’s supported?

CCA is limited to 24/92 but I thought I can bypass the DAC with a toslink correct?

I’m trying to make it work cause I have to run a very long USB-C cable to my MAC and I much prefer the conveyance of the streamer.

2

Debug info:
Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.50 (3580)
macOS 14.6.0 with 8192MB RAM

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX with device max frequency upsampling
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: by album
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 0 folders
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/sherifkamal/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

CoreAudio audio path, buffer I/O frame size: 512

Max. memory for audio buffers: 3716MB

Local Audio Engine:
Exclusive access: Enabled
Integer mode: Enabled

Preferred device:
SMSL USB AUDIO
Model UID:SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD
UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:100000:1

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 2ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24bits little endian Signed Integer, 8 bytes per frame 176.4kHz

Active Sample Rate: 176.4kHz
Hog Mode is on

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
ID 0xb1 SMSL USB AUDIO Manufacturer:SMSL
Model UID:SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:100000:1

10 available sample rates up to 768000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000
352800
384000
705600
768000
Audio buffer frame size : 14 to 4096 frames
Current I/O buffer frame size : 512
Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: DSD via PCM 1.1
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: Yes

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0xb2 2 channels starting at 1
30 virtual formats:
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz

40 physical formats
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ID 0xb1 SMSL USB AUDIO Manufacturer: SMSL Model UID: SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD UID: AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:100000:1
Device #1: ID 0x67 MacBook Air Speakers Manufacturer: Apple Inc. Model UID: Speaker UID: BuiltInSpeakerDevice

UPnP devices found : 4
Device #0: ID 0x0 Bedroom Device UID: uuid:19aa6e52-63da-11ef-9ac5-a0ea1715b3f9 Location: http://192.168.86.21:18400/MediaServer/rendererdevicedesc.xml
Device #1: ID 0x0 Bedroom TV (DLNA) UID: uuid:91ea6ee6-11a5-61b9-ffff-ffffd3cbc922 Location: http://192.168.86.206:63044/dev/91ea6ee6-11a5-61b9-ffff-ffffd3cbc922/desc.xml
Device #2: ID 0x0 Living Room TV (DLNA) UID: uuid:91ea6ee6-11a5-61b9-0000-00004ac13810 Location: http://192.168.86.206:63044/dev/91ea6ee6-11a5-61b9-0000-00004ac13810/desc.xml
Device #3: ID 0x0 Bedroom speaker (DLNA) UID: uuid:91ea6ee6-11a5-61b9-ffff-fffff65c88b9

3

As you point out, Chromecast is limited to 24/96k … 176.4kHz is the DoP 1.1 PCM carrier sample-rate for 1-bit 2.8MHz PDM (DSD64)… No can do DSD64 via your streamer

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

4

But I thought one of the advantages of connecting CCA vis toslink to a DAC is it bypasses the DAC in the CCA, and SMSL should take care of decoding, isn’t it that the case?

5

The CCA device can only handle up to 24/96kHz PCM signals…in your case, apparently supports a TOSLINK S/PDIF digital output to your DAC… The CCA only outputs the highest sample-rate signal that it is capable of reproducing (24/96kHz), whether this is from it’s internal DAC, to its analog output, or to the optical port… The analog output supports devices that don’t have optical S/PDIF inputs, and the optical output supports digital devices with an S/PDIF optical input… nothing is bypassed.

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

6

Note: Some technical insight regarding the SMSL DAC…
The SMSL RAW-MDA1 DAC platform uses ESS ES9039Q2M chipsets… These DAC chipsets convert all signals to high sample-rate PCM for multi-bit output… there is no pure 1-bit PDM (DSD) signal-path to a low-pass filtered output… DSD signals are decimated (down-converted) to PCM, whether this is raw native 1-bit PDM or delivered via DSD over PCM (DoP).

In all cases with this SMSL box, you will be best served to convert your DSD files to PCM in Audirvana, where this will off-load the de-embedding of the 1-bit PDM signal from the DoP PCM carrier sample-rate and the decimation DSP processing overhead from the DAC that creates noise (jitter) in the platform clocking topologies… This is done by changing your ‘Native DSD streaming method’ to ‘None, convert to PCM’.

  • Keep your USB cable very short!
    :notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:
7
8

Thanks! That makes sense, I thought when I read I can bypass the DAC in the CCA I will have access to unlimited sample rate but I didn’t know that it bypasses the DAC with limiting the digital signal it provides to the external DAC.

Anyway I think I better just use USB connection to the DAC as it sounds phenomenal.

I think I’ll experiment with the sound to see which one works for me as it is now DOP sounds much better than without an external DAC.

One thing though, I ordered a 10 ft USB cable cause this is the optimal length I need, I assume this is not so long to cause issues correct?

9

If it were some optical USB audio cable like this:

A 10ft long copper USB cable will not serve you best… use the shortest USB cable possible… Or uses something like this streamer to deliver signals to your DAC… many Audirvāna users employ this:

Follow my advice regarding conversion of DSD to PCM in Audirvāna :wink:

Edit: You can install an iFi-Audio iPurifier3 at your DAC to improve the signal quality delivered by the overly-long copper USB cable:

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

10

Yeah, I’m so interested in the Zen Streamer after I saw it in another post yesterday, two questions though: I thought USB 2 is almost good for 100ft since it only sends data and doesn’t “unpack” them until it reaches the DAC so from my understanding 10 ft is nothing specialliy regarding Jitter and Clocking. Second question is regarding the DSP to PCM I tested it now vs the DOP 1.1 on low volume though (since it’s morning time lol) couldn’t hear a difference yet. How this affects Jitter when the DAC main job is oversampling/downsampling and either you prefer to do it at the DAC or Audirvana?

11

{CEC9C53D-B3FB-469E-8B8F-7FB789702026}
{CEC9C53D-B3FB-469E-8B8F-7FB789702026}1710×609 43.3 KB

The above screenshot is from this link:
USB Cable Max Length Explained: Extending and Optimizing - Anker US

For high quality audio the general advice with a normal (‘passive’ good quality) USB cable is a maximum of 3 meters. Active USB cables are less recomended for this purpose:

[USB Cable Length Limitations And How To Break Them – Your Cable Store](USB Cable Length Limitations And How To Break Them – Your Cable Store)

12

Thanks! I think I’m good getting the 10 feet then, funnily I ordered it from Anker as I trust their quality.

13

USB audio transmission protocol is asynchronous, where the DAC receives the meta-data regarding sample-rate etc, where the DAC clocking topology takes over, although the data is sent isochronously from the USB output bus to the USB bus receiver in the DAC, where the bus controller must manage the packet flow through the signaling lines of the USB cable protocol… In the case of USB 2.0 cable protocol the data-lines carry the signaling voltages, which induces noise (jitter) that corrupts the packet and packetized data interpolation(s)… Length (time) induces latencies due to wait-times for packet resends and a long USB interconnect acts as an RF and EMF antenna inducing noise into the transmission line, where this noise is translated into jitter in the interpolation(s) and these latencies can cause drop-outs because of bus receiver buffer under-runs…

The main job of a DAC is to interpolate (convert) the digital-audio signals (the voltage pulses that represent the encoded audio signals) into analog voltages for output… The ESS DAC chipset has limited resources for DSP as compared to the computer running Audirvāna doing this processing… The nature of decimating DSD to PCM and de-embedding the 1-bit PDM signal from the DoP PCM carrier data, requires large data buffering where potential accumulator/register under-runs and clock interrupts will induce noise (jitter) in the clocking topologies… By allowing the ESS chipset to cruise with little DSP overhead, you are minimizing the noise potentials that interfere with proper reading of leading and trailing edges of the signal waveform at the interpolator(s).

  • You may not be able to discern the differences when a long USB cable is employed and becomes the equalizer.

https://www.digikey.com/en/pdf/x/xmos/xmos-fundamentals-usb-audio
:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:,

14

I feel that my whole purpose of getting a DAC is blown out, I got the DAC mainly to connect to CCA and bypass the internal DAC and have DOP64 streamed but now my best option is to convert to PCM in Audirvana! kinda ironic. I’m playing now Joe Henderson Page One reference album both in Convert to PCM/DOP 1.1 and I’m trying to hear any difference but I can’t, USB cable is 6FT btw. I just feel that I’m defeating the purpose since I was so obsessed to play DSD natively. One different question though I have been playing with Oversampling since I encountered crackling sound when choosing Device Max frequency, I switched to deactivated and it’s gone, chose X2 and it’s good too as below, any suggestions? some posts here recommended 82-88% for filter bandwidth.

Screenshot 2025-03-14 at 4.28.00 PM
Screenshot 2025-03-14 at 4.28.00 PM1626×638 53.3 KB

15

I recommend using r8Brain and use ‘Power of Two’ up-sampling strategy for PCM files as this will produce the proper logical results… for example:
44.1kHz → 705.6kHz
48kHz → 768kHz

The parametric controls in r8Brain are simpler and very effective, also the code is newer and more efficient… Use a ‘Linear’ phase filter and experiment with the stop band percentage by making very small adjustments so to get a feel for how these changes influences the output sound quality… No reason to change the percent of the Nyquist Frequency…

When playing DSD files the up-sampling module is bypassed and the signal is then decimated to PCM.

EDIT:
You can leave the up-sampling module deactivated if you wish to let the ESS chipset do the up-sampling of all PCM signals… However, most find that having the computer in concert with Audirvāna doing the up-sampling is better, where the ESS chipset handles the rest of the Hyperstream II processing.

16

I notice a difference when I disable the upsampling really like what Audirvana is doing instead of leaving it to the DAC. I can’t find an option to enable r8Brain, I thought I saw it’s not available in 3.5.5.

1 Like
17

You are correct r8Brain is not available in 3.5. Only in Audirvana Origin and Audirvana Studio.

18

To help you fine-tune your playback :wink:

Some information regarding the Nyquist Frequency (Fs) so you have a clear understanding of making SoX related adjustments that will affect the sound of the playback quality…

I suggest not changing the default values/settings, as the ESS DAC chipset Hyperstream II module will handle the signal output as the common denominator.

– More detail from the Audirvāna online Help manual pop-up window in the up-sampling module found by selecting the (i) icon at the top-right of the settings window:

There are two types of overshoot: pre-oscillations and post- oscillations. The first are audible as a “pre-echo” arriving before the signal itself, and are the least natural to listen to. With a value of 100 we obtain a filter with a linear phase, but with an equal level of pre- and post-oscillations. A value of 0.0 results in a minimum phase filter, with no pre-oscillation, but with non-linear phase distortion. The intermediate values allow you to choose the most pleasing compromise to the ear.

In regard to USB cable… I proposed using the iFi-Audio/SilentPower iPurifier3 as a means of improving signal quality transmitted via a 6ft cable… This device supports USB 3 transmission protocol and USB 3 cable protocol… The USB 3 cable protocol defines a separation of the signaling lines from the Data Lines, and provides for more throughput speed across the transmission line… This translates into less jitter on the digital-audio signal (Note: there is no error-correction of the digital-audio signal in asynchronous USB transmission.) Utilizing the iPurifier3 provides for filtered and corrected connection to your DAC, which virtually eliminates the influential gremlins found in a USB 2 digital-audio transmission, and provides an unfettered data-path by virtue of the USB 3 cable and transmission protocol.

You must be aware of potential power/ground related noise (hum) when the computer and the DAC are on different power/ground circuits… It is best to have your playback components and computer on a common power/ground/earth circuit so to reduce noise on the power signal… How to achieve this in your playback scenario will entail a larger discussion regarding system related noise that influence the quality of playback.
:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes: