It’s my opinion, network distribution of digital audio is a compromise, unless you have the resources to overcome the obstacles to DXDxxx and DSDxxx.
Unfortunately my Cyrus streamer/DAC doesn’t have the capabilty to play DSD content so that’s never been an issue. However it’s striking, to me at least, that certain software solutions appear to navigate the network (UPnP) streaming minefield substantially better than others. This, in my opinion, is a shortfall of the software. In this instance Studio.
Yeah, I’m not paying more for a network bridge than I did for my DAC.
It puts the responsibility on one, to qualify this presumption through experimentation and testing… I can’t imagine that every user of a Cyrus streamer/DAC using Audirvana Studio is experiencing your issues, but maybe they do?… What do the Cyrus folks say about this?
I’m honestly not sure if other Cyrus users are experiencing the same problems as I appear to be. I haven’t checked on the Cyrus forums tbh. Each user scenario is different, as you’ve correctly mentioned previously.
However, it would appear that users of OTHER hardware manufaturers equipment are also having problems.
I think @brlawyer (although I may be wrong, apologies to @brlawyer if so) has a Cambridge Audio streamer that hasn’t worked correctly since day one of Studios inception. This is utilising the basic UPnP ‘protocol’.
When one purchases/loans (as we users are with the subscription model currently in place with Studio) an item that is purportedly ‘fit for purpose’, I would suggest the problem lies with the supplier of the product loaned/subscribed, to remedy the problems encountered. So far this hasn’t proven to be the case.
In my opinion, Studio has taken a leap too far. The basic problem of UPnP integration should have been the FIRST order of priority. It was, afterall, present in 3.. There are those amongst us that have paid decent money (albeit NOT a Kings ransom) in the assumption that the item we’ve paid for will actually work as expected, especially 6 months after the launch of Studio.
I still feel that some of us are Beta testing the product. Constant submittal of de-bug logs aren’t actually producing remedies, at least in my case.
This troubleshooting doc from Cambridge Audio may shed some light on the issue of UPnP gremlins: https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001630697-UPNP-Guide-and-Troubleshooting-
From the above linked Cambridge Audio support page:
- Check that your network’s firewall is not blocking any outgoing ports. A firewall is a dedicated appliance, or software running on a computer or router, which inspects network traffic passing through it, and denies or permits passage based on a set of rules. It is a software or hardware that is normally placed between a protected network and a non-protected network and acts like a gate to protect assets to ensure that nothing private goes out and nothing malicious comes in.
- As a minimum, our product needs access to UDP and TCP ports 80, 5 54, 1755, 5000, 6000 and 7070. You will need to enter your router’s setup to check these firewall settings and also the settings in any additional firewall software running on your computer will need to be checked. For troubleshooting purposes temporarily remove any port blocking / open all ports.
- Check that your router or access point does not restrict connections to a particular MAC addresses. You can view the streamers MAC address using the menu item ‘Settings → Network Config → View Config → MAC addresses.
- If you have an encrypted Wi-Fi network, check that you have entered the correct key or passphrase into the streamer. Remember that text-format keys are case sensitive. If, when attempting to connect to an encrypted network, your streamer displays: ‘Wireless error’ followed by a 5-digit number, then please ensure that you enter the correct passphrase for the network. If the problem persists, then you may need to consult your network configuration.
The following is from the Audiophile Style article:
“UPnP audio playback requires a Media Server, Media Renderer, and Control Point in addition to a solid network infrastructure. The bare minimum requirements for UPnP playback will not lead to a successful or satisfying UPnP implementation. Computer audiophiles could squeak by with something as simple as a wired PC acting as the Server and Control Point sending audio to the Renderer of their choice. This type of configuration doesn’t take advantage of UPnP’s capabilities and doesn’t invite one to use the system frequently. Stepping up to a high quality wired and wireless network and using separate UPnP devices when needed can increase one’s enjoyment of his UPnP based audio system greatly. Selecting solid hardware and software, and configuring both correctly can eliminate most of the ills associated with UPnP audio such as pops, ticks, dropouts and unintended gapped playback. The following non-exhaustive list contains examples of Media Servers, Media Renderers, Control Points, and UPnP software. Readers should keep in mind that Media Servers and Control Points require both software and hardware. In addition, not all hardware and software are compatible with each other due to support for specific operating systems or serving and rendering hardware…”
This will be my last input on the subject… My friend is using the network node/endpoint linked below, in concert with optically isolated Ethernet from his router and optically isolated USB to his DAC, apparently these are Audirvana certified:
From the product page:
- Supports the following PCM sample rates up to: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, and 768kHz
- Supports the following DSD sample rates up to: DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512
- POP free DSD/PCM transitions
- Not all USB devices or output modes support the maximum sample rate of the unit
- RoonReady certified
- Audirvana Plus certified
- Running Logitech Media Server locally allows playback of local radio stations and streaming service
- Logitech Media Server allows you to use the unit as a UPNP server in combination with Drive Mounter
- The Software Manager that allows you to install and uninstall apps as needed
- BubbleUPnP Server app allows any renderer to take advantage of the OhMedia - OpenHome protocol
- OhMedia - OpenHome protocol allows the Linn Kinsky and Linn Kazoo Apps with playlist support to be used as controllers
- Supports Tidal and Qobuz lossless streaming via thrid party applications
- Native DSD supported
- The unit is controlled via third-party apps on your mobile device and on your computer
- Based on Sonicorbiter, closed source and open source (GPLv2)
Thanks for the Audiophile Style link!
Many thanks @Agoldnear
No, not me, @Ironz - mine is a Technics integrated amp (SU-G30); it works fine with both Audirvana and Roon (I just had it replaced once, under warranty, because my original unit was defective).
My apologies @brlawyer, honest mistake.
Although I’m reasonably certain someone on here had a problem with their CA/Studio set-up.
The old memory isn’t what it used to be
Was it @MikeO ?
Ah yes, you could be correct
The best thing you could do, if you want to stay with AS and to be sure it will work properly, is to buy a more standard UPnP player (bridge), like the SOTM, Ultrarendu, Limetree and so on…
What a ridiculous suggestion to replace perfectly good , award winning hardware , just because a piece of software isn’t flexible enough to make it work. I love spending money especially when I see some benefit to be gained by it but just to fit in with a piece of software WELL.
Also clearly you live in a place where such hardware is available. You are spoiled. I live in South Africa we simply do not get such exotic equipment here we are limited to the few big names like Cambridge Audio that believe the market is big enough to warrant it .
Reading forums like this and the Roon , 90% of the mouthwatering morsels of equipment are even available without buying overseas and then risking the prohibitive import taxes sight unseen.
If @Antoine can’t get his software to talk to a very popular streamer like the CXN without butchering the signal then he doesn’t deserve my custom, sorry Antoine .
I’ll stick with uPNP via my jriver server
Yes it was me , I have a Cambridge Audio CXN v1 which is uPNP compliant but the only way I could get it to work was to upsample everything before passing to the streamer, hardly bit perfect …
I bought a years sub that was a complete waste it hasn’t been used for months. I try each update to see if any correction has been made Alas not .
To be honest I wasn’t sufficiently impressed with AS to persevere, I use Roon pretty much all the time nowadays
For interest I run Roon (through a RPi/Allodigone ) and JRiver through the CXN to a Audiolab M-DAC as a headphone amp. I do not really use speakers.
I am however seriously considering a Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition as we speak , we can buy them here
Hi Mike, what I wrote you was: ‘only if you want to stay with AS’. And I didn’t know about the situation in your country and I pity you for that. In my case, I didn’t had an expensive player, so I could easily sell and replace it for a more generic and better equipped UPnP-player. Hopefully AS can solve your problems in the near future! Right now I only have the database problems left, but if they can’t solve them, I’m out too!
So, another evening’s listening pleasure ruined, yet again, by Studio crashing requiring a restart of my server!
Honestly, this software is about as stable as a drunk on a unicycle.
Have 5 months to go on my Studio subscription, and at this rate absolutely NO chance of re-subscribing.
I really do hate to be this pessimistic, but after what seems like a prolonged period of paying to beta test, enough is surely enough.
A bridge like UltraRendu allows one to continue using the existing DAC or streamer in a reliable network scenario… For those in the DSD camp, the PCM 192kHz limitation of some devices is unacceptable… In this use scenario one can easily swap DACs at will, as the network reliability has been established/codified by quantified, accomplished, qualified/certified compliant UPnP clients…
I‘m getting annoyed, too! But I don’t know if I can blame Audirvana. My Devialet goes to idle after 15 minutes without an audio signal. If I have Audirvana running on my computer, the switch to idle lets Audirvana to crash completely and I have to force quit it on my Mac. Last night it was particularly bad as even the incredibly stable Roon didn’t work anymore.
I‘m coming to the conclusion that UPnP is just a plain difficult thing to manage.
I now switched my Devialet to Ethernet in. This has always been phenomenally stable. BUT, I can’t use Audirvana with this configuration as it doesn’t recognize the Ethernet port. One of the mighty advantages of Roon that can be used with so many inputs.
Audirvana team: please make such ports available too!!!
Thanks , I am perfectly aware of the various functions of the digital replay chain , I went fully digital 10 years ago. I have been through various streamers and computer based streaming solutions
Before I moved to Roon the CXN was an excellent choice working perfectly with JRiver Server. However being the V1 it’s not Roon Ready so I made a Roon bridge with RPi/ Roipeee which covers Roon and upnp
What I don’t expect is that upnp based product like AS should not fully support a hardware environment as Hi end as the CXN
I tried AS only as a Roon replacement but honestly it comes up short in so many areas I abandoned it. I bought. 1 year sub , if I played it for 1 hour I would be luck. Roon however runs 4 - 8 hours daily with no hitches
Enough said, each to their own AS is not for me