Calling Application Programing Interfaces are not the same thing as a virtual machine… Steve Jobs “stealing” much of the MacOS ideas from Alan Kay’s Smalltalk systems at PARC… If your interested in Virtual Machine talk a look at Smalltalk, Lisp or Java… Or even the various Pascal P-Systems…
Yes we’ve been down this road before… The virtual machine is accessing the platform API’s like the memory bus architecture, RAM. clocking, etc, otherwise why would one need Bootcamp? If this was a transparent installation there would be no reason to facilitate it with Bootcamp… The Windows virtual machine is running on a layer of API’s that Apple allows access to.
Virtual machines are interpreters that read P-codes or pseudo codes and interpret/execute/JIT them into native codes for a particular set of hardware…
Might be time for you to go back to the history of computing skool…
There are also MacOSes the run on intel pc hardware that traditionally runs windoz using the same example as bootcamp… Check out Hackintosh Chimera for instance…
Why does Citrix call a Windows installation on an Intel Mac a virtual machine? I ran Windows on my Mac Pro for a couple of years… It sucked… I needed it for reference working with producers that were Windows-centric… It was VMware Fusion that I used for this.
Again, why would there be any need for a facilitating software ‘wrench’ to install Windows on an Apple Intel platform if there are no functional obstacles.? Why couldn’t you just install it like any other PC platform?
Because boot loaders usually point to one boot track… Things like Bootcamp ask you which OS you want to boot to on hardware system startup…
I am not familiar with Citrix so I can’t really comment on why they might call themselves a virtual machine… I can’t do this anymore with you tonight… Can we please take this offline into messaging tomorrow…
Do not continue. You don’t know anything about what you’re talking about. You can say that you invented Apple computers in a garage that will remain simply ridiculous. It is better to participate in discussions when you have knowledge of the topic at hand. All the answers will sound arrogant to you because you have no idea what the rest of us are talking about and you have pretended to impose your point of view and have been exposed. I guess if we were talking about something else you would say you went to school with Bill Gates. You’re probably a 12 year old kid.
The last answer should always be to @Agingears, stop responding… lower your memory buffer guys
And if you are really interested in virtual machines like I was… Check out Ian Piumarta and his virtual virtual machines…
Also along the same lines there is Ometa by Alessandro Warth and Yoshiki Ohshima…
PS - I had a first i8080 s100 bus, build on my kitchen table system in 1977… And got one of the first 100 Mac 128s that came to the OC So Cal… You don’t know who I am, where I have been, or who I know in the in the Image and signal processing arena…
Show me that running any OS on an Apple Intel Mac or Apple silicon Mac hardware platform does not sit on a layer of core macOS hardware API’s…
Overview
The Virtualization framework provides high-level APIs for creating and managing virtual machines (VM) on Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers. Use this framework to boot and run macOS or Linux-based operating systems in custom environments that you define.
Virtualization | Apple Developer Documentation
Nope Bootcamp is the same as a ‘bootloader’.
You simply choose an OS on startup. With Bootcamp Windows does not run in a virtual machine but runs ‘bare metal’ on the hardware of the computer. I am truly amazed you do not know this.
On installation Bootcamp simply assists with installing some Apple/Mac compatible drivers for Windows (probably you are confusing that with API’s and a ‘virtual machine’). Since Windows can not run bare metal on Apple Silicon, Apple abandoned Bootcamp since the introduction of the M-series processors. On Intel Macs Bootcamp can still be used.
Definition of Boot Camp | PCMag
Windows in BootCamp or Virtual Machine? - Apple Community
This is basic computer science. If you are trying to dispute this you are basically painting yourself in a corner. It is no shame to admit you are wrong once in a while.
Thank you @AndyLubke for having the patience to explain. While he’s in shock I’ll remember that Audirvana users know Bootcamp well because Damien commented years ago that Audirvana’s sound better on Windows thanks to the fact that he can do more tweaks in the kernel, than macOS forbids. To that I add Fidelizer Pro and, in my opinion, the sound is better than with a streamer device. Best wishes that @Agoldnear learns to search in Google before intervening in the forums
How do you explain this?
Yes it runs on the CPU (bare metal)… however, the platform hardware/software interface topology is not fabricated to support Windows natively… The Apple macOS hardware platform is synergistically integrated through hardware software interfaces (API’s) that facilitate address and control of the hardware topologies that operate on core instruction sets (firmware) that are synergetic with the macOS they have been programmed to support. This core level of system topology is part of the unique intellectual property and design architecture that fundamentally makes the platform uniquely an Apple Inc, computer. This is fundamental.
The Core Audio reference below is from the Developers development archive:
Core Audio services are layered on top of the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) as shown in Figure 1-1. Audio signals pass to and from hardware through the HAL.
What Is Core Audio?
====
An API can also be related to a software framework: a framework can be based on several libraries implementing several APIs, but unlike the normal use of an API, the access to the behavior built into the framework is mediated by extending its content with new classes plugged into the framework itself.
API - Wikipedia
Computer Systems Architecture
The Hardware/Software Interface
Sang-Woo Jun
UCI
Spring 2023
Hardware Interfaces
https://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=30895&seqNum=5
Today the distinctly vertical integration of Apple ‘M’ series silicon platform designs and macOS and iOS, is a performance advantage and we see that Microsoft is answering with their software running on ARM architecture.
@LETRA
Knock yourself out… $199 Mac Pro
An OS sitting on any hardware platform usually has that hardware abstracted away with a well documented library of API’s… The so called “Virtualization framework” are these API’s… Not the same as an actual “virtual machine” which your Overview goes on to suggest that you can create a Virtual Machine which would utilize these API’s…
Yes… but not at the core system hardware levels, without some form of mediation and this can never be transparent to the hardware interface that is proprietary to the platform systems topologies… Otherwise it would just be another Windows/Linux platform… which Apple computers are not.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here… As Alan K. once said: "point of view is worth 80 IQ… I know that Apple has gone its own way with their hardware and software since 1983… Mach micro kernel and BSD flavor of nix with their own flavor of a Smalltalk like user interface…
Every computer system I have worked on from the 1802 micro processor to parallel vector super computers and pretty much everything in between has these types of specific propriety hardware, CPUs, Memory, I/O etc… And they come with volumes of documentation that describes the “so called” API’s and their class libraries, so you the end programmer, does not have to write your own device drivers for each of the system hardware elements…
As I pointed-out , it’s all about the proprietary “firmware” (instruction sets) IP integral to the platform component/design topologies that make an Apple computer an Apple computer… This is the barrier that needs mediation and is typically limited…
I am still having a difficult time understanding what you are suggesting is so different or exceptional about this… The Data General Eclipse C330, as well as others, had a user writable microcode window… It that what you are describing as propriety firmware… Most CPU instruction sets are not described as “firmware”…
I’ve gone past the “bare metal” into the realm of the platform topologies, that the CPU is addressing… I totally understand that an OS can reside on the Intel chip in a Mac or if properly implemented on M silicon… In the case of Apple silicon it is a different story because of the nature of this being an SOC…
Anyway, we are flogging a dead horse… I gave @LETRA a link to a $199 Mac Pro, so he can virtualize at a higher level…
But make no mistake the Apple M series SOC’s are lightyears from the Intel Mac in performance and should never be equated with one and other…