UPnP tracks dropping/ not playing

Was hoping with the latest update that UPnP would be more stable but coming back to studio it seems to be really flakey.

If I play an album it will play maybe one or two tracks and then just stops although the interface says it is playing but with no track time progression.

Playback chain:

Macbook M1 >> wifi >> AP >> router >> ethernet > Altair G1

Would switching back to the original app rather than studio be better for UPnP?

Seems this is a common issue with Audirvana Studio/Origin and Auralic devicesā€¦ā€¦ link to some prior discussion on the topic. @bitracer had a particularly insightful commentā€¦ā€¦.

https://community.audirvana.com/t/audirvana-and-auralic-device-compatibility/32866

Well 3.5 doesnā€™t seem to work either, plays a track and then just stops/hangs. If I skip or restart then I also get loud static/white noise.

Is UPnP even working with audirvana as I see quite a few threads with different streamers so it seems to be an audirvana issue rather than streamers not supporting UPnP/DLNA properly

I have no issues seeing or connecting the Altair in the app, it just wonā€™t play an entire album beyond the second/third track etc.

Oh well, looks like Auralic will never work with Audirvana then :frowning:

Back to the lightning app, massive shame as AV sounds better than anything else Iā€™ve used.

Think the addition of the Linn UPnP extensions included in the OpenHome UPnP stack may be the cause of some of the erratic behavior. I would keep checking the ā€œplays with Audirvanaā€ section to see if Auralic devices are added before you try again. Also suggest you contact Auralic to see if they are aware of the issue with Audirvana and do they have any plans to address the incompatibilities in a future update.

How much System RAM does your MacBook have? Is your music Library residing on the System disk? ā€¦ Also, there is no guarantee of playback reliability when using WiFi connectivity to your router, due to signal interruption potentials in your specific playback scenario/environmentā€¦

Please paste your Debug info here so folks can see your current system playback configurationsā€¦ Itā€™s found here: Settingsā€“> My Accountā€“> Helpā€“> Debug info

Good advice, if this is in fact the real source of the behavior you are experiencing.

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

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There are other streamer vendors that have already addressed (read fixed) these issuesā€¦

:+1:

16GB

No local library, just use Qobuz and radio paradise.

There is when WiFi is done properly.

What does this look like in your playback environment?
From my perspective, it is always a mistake to connect a high performance digital-audio player wirelessly for UPnP signal distribution via a router, as there is no error-correction on the digital-audio signal in transmission at any point along the network (This includes Ethernet transmission). The convenience for most, tends to insert a level of unpredictability.
*I also see there will be signal latencies when receiving streaming digital-audio files and simultaneously or subsequently sending them over your WIFI network configurationā€¦ too many variablesā€¦

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

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I should add that prior to seeing the thread on issues with Auralic devices with Audirvana my first inclination was to suggest that this was a network issue.

2-3 years ago I relied upon a wireless network provided by my ISP, one wireless router WiFi 5. I too experienced issues playing to my KEF UPnP endpoints. This would manifest itself intermittently as, a) first track played fine, b) second track played but the menu bar did not progress and the album art did not show the second track and c) playback would stop after the second track.

Spent ages trying to diagnose the issue and eventually came to the conclusion it was likely a wireless network issue rather than an incompatibility between Audirvana and the KEF UPnP implementation. I solved the problem by buying an expensive (at the time) 3 router mesh WiFi 6 system (NetGear Orbi). This improved signal strength and had added capability of allowing bandwidth priority allocation to my playback computer and the KEFā€™s. This seemed to resolve my issue and I have not re-experienced these issues since the upgrade several years ago. I have since upgraded to WiFi 7 (TP Link Deco BE85) which has further, and very significantly, improved wireless throughput performance and latency with the capability of using Multi-Link Operation on the network backhaul between routers.

In order to determine whether this is the issue rather than an incompatibility between UPnP implementations, I would, for a temporary trial, move your computer close to the Auralic and connect via a direct Ethernet cable. If the issue disappears it is a wireless issue, if not then it is a UPnP implementation issue. (Obviously you will need to rip/purchase a couple of albums and playback locally to test the direct connection versus wireless)

I like you connect my router to endpoint via Ethernet but have to use wireless for the computer connection to my home network and backhaul between the routers. I have a laptop so an easy check to plug the laptop directly to the endpoint with an Ethernet cable. Well worth the effort to do so for a few hours to help locate the source of the problem.

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I am not a fan of wireless digital-audio yetā€¦ However, from your detailed descriptions of the hoops you have jumped through to create what appears to be a relatively reliable high-resolution digital-audio UPnP protocol WIFI network, it is ā€œdone properly.ā€ ā€¦ Without a digital-audio network protocol like Ravenna or Dante or AVB, it seems you have designed as reliable a digital audio UPnP WIFI network as can be configured. :wink: Iā€™m sure many will benefit from the insights you have gained in this endeavorā€¦ I know I haveā€¦ :+1:

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

While on the subject and as a corollary to @Djm1960 's insights into the building of his high-resolution UPnP WIFI networkā€¦ This 2015 TI (Texas Instruments) paper corroborates his design strategiesā€¦ It is an oldie but a goodie.ā€¦
ā€œWi-FiĀ® audio: Capabilities and challengesā€

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

I think I know @thebiglebowski from other forums, and if Iā€™m right then designing high performance networks is part of what he does for a living and lecturing him on networking issues might overload the irony meter.

Iā€™d expect wifi issues to be effectively random, and certainly not to consistently affect file start/end issues without other serious ill effects. Iā€™ve mentioned elsewhere on this forum that I have issues with Audirvana and my Rose streamer where every few tracks it repeats the first second or two of a track, so there may be a wider issue.

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I also have an Auralic streamer (Aries), and can confirm that I have the same issues as encountered by @thebiglebowski
However, my network is fully wired, so wi-Fi connectivity isnā€™t the problem in my case.
Suspect, as has been mentioned, itā€™s a UPnP compatibility issue.

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Hi @thebiglebowski,

Iā€™m sorry to confirm that Auralic is not keen to change its implementation. Iā€™m in direct contact with them, and as they only rely on OpenHome, the only way to get their units certified over UPNP would be to integrate Openhome, which is not on our roadmap.

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It appears in this case, the behavior is related to a UPnP compatibility problemā€¦ However, in general application, a wireless UPnP protocol transmission of digital-audio signals is subject to interruptions and inconsistencies precipitated by several sources of RF interference and signal latencies, and potentially, other electro-mechanical/power/ground influencers on the component topologies used in the transmission lineā€¦ Some folks may not be savvy about the potential influences on wireless high-resolution digital-audio transmission, especially using UPnP protocolā€¦ These dialogs can be of value to those less versed, that may be reading threads like this.

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

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