I saw that Audirvana supports DSD over HDMI with compatible devices.
But there is little literature on what those devices are.
I have hope to make this work with a Sony STR-DN1080 receiver. This receiver supports DSD native with my Sony SACD/Bluray player for instance.
My limited search so far on the topic shows me that Apple MacBook M1 Max and Mac mini M1 are not capable of DSD over HDMI. Can somebody confirm?
I have other desktops where I could use Windows or Linux. They have AMD or Nvidia cards with HDMI ports. Or a Dell Laptop with also a HDMI port.
What can I do to verify compatibility? Is that a feature that is listed somewhere on Windows for instance? Or is there a software (beside installing Audirvana) that needs to be installed?
Which is why I am asking here now if anybody has some experience with that kind of setup between Audirvana and AVRs.
Don’t you think it would be worth having some details in this very specific DSD section of the forum made for the user community of the product instead of having to google it and get all the noisy results specifically saying it may not even be possible?
Not sure if you’re a bot recommending to google things or not (please don’t take it bad ), but that thread is very general and actually people try to find out also if DSD over HDMI works and for what devices, without a conclusive solution as far as I can read. It’s also quite a few years old.
Maybe the answer is that it is not possible, even with Audirvana. Having this simple clarification would be useful too.
It’s a nice feature to have that I would use, but not a deal breaker since most (meant to say some=mine) AVRs support streaming DSD over the network too.
I believe it would be great to clarify it’s indeed a very special capability of Audirvana in order to answer similar questions in other threads and avoid spreading misinformation too. Audirvana has very good support of DSD/SACD ISO for instance. The developers may have gone so deep in the code that they made it work over HDMI too!
Would be very unique I think for Audirvana to have their Linux CorePlayer for instance supporting this. There is nothing else that does it on the market. Typically only SACD players AFAIK can send native DSD to an AVR via HDMI.
But since I was told and read on the Audirvana FAQ that I am wrong believing it’s not possible after googling myself the topic many times over the years, I am seeking for more details here.
I’ve been looking at this topic for many years (from far away), sad that it’s something eventually very obfuscated in the SACD/HDMI standard because of DRM/Patent/Standard fees who knows. It’s such a niche market that Apple and others don’t care paying/fighting.
Rediscovering Audirvana very recently (it was my first bit perfect player many years ago), I was happily surprised there is maybe hope that great developers took the time to make this work because they see value for their own community.
Or not… and I’ll move on forever
I feel like the Audirvana developer may indeed have done something there. (How is a great mystery for me since it should involve some trickery with the graphic cards system?!?)
For instance I was told playing SACD ISO bit perfect over the network (like copying as-is the DSD data from the ISO into a DSD stream over DLNA/UPnP) was not possible by the developers of my other bit perfect player. I frankly never understood why (I have some programming background) but trusted them that it was some intricate details of how the data is packaged that makes it hard/impossible to do. But Audirvana makes this possible without a problem.
I see your receiver accepts DSD in either DSDIFF or DSF format. No audio software I’m familiar with uses DSDIFF. You can look at your log file in Audirvana when playing/upsampling to DSD and see whether Audirvana is sending the signal in DSF or the other major DSD format, DFF. If the latter, that could be the reason it’s not working.
I’ll check it out thanks. But I am not there yet actually.
I asked before spending time configuring different PCs with Windows/Linux, graphic cards etc… and probably waste a lot of time with known configuration that don’t work.
Finally did some testing using a Windows 11 Pro machine. I connected a Dell laptop via HDMI to the same HDMI input I use with my SACD/Bluray player connected to the Sony STR-DN1080. This player can play DSD Native from SACD to the STR-DN1080 receiver.
In WASAPI, I selected the output called “32V3H-H6A Intel Display Audio”.
I tried both with DSD over PCM (DoP) enabled (1.0 and 1.1), and with conversion. DSD files and SACD ISOs are never played correctly unfortunately. PCM files are played correctly.
When set to “convert to PCM”, Audirvana seems to be doing something. It shows the wave form of the DSD tracks. But it never starts playing, no progress being shown, nor sound heard.
When set to DoP 1.0, same thing.
In ASIO mode, I select the output called “Realtek IO”. It’s the integrated speakers of the laptop in that case. The DSD plays after being converted but it’s distorted.
In KERNEL STREAMING, I selected the output “32V3H-H6A Intel Display Audio” again. In that case I set it to convert to PCM and limit to Stereo/24/192. Nothing plays, not even the PCM files.
The conclusion is that DSD native over HDMI doesn’t work from Windows with the Sony STR-DN0180. Encapsulated in PCM or not.
Why the conversion to PCM doesn’t work either is a mystery, but it’s outside of the scope of this test/thread.
So no, Audirvana doesn’t seem to be able to behave like a SACD player that would encrypt the DSD stream over HDMI. Therefore doesn’t play DSD native to the receiver over HDMI.
And the STR-DN1080 is definitely not an advanced DAC that supports DoP 1.0 or 1.1.
FYI, here’s another example of a thread of a different hardware confirming that there is no DSD native over HDMI possible (without using DoP).
If there is something I did wrong, let me know.
Otherwise I close this thread by concluding that Audirvana doesn’t not have a secret trick to make this work, and can’t make a PC behave like a SACD player that would play DSD64 stereo and 5.1 over HDMI (without DoP).
I also tested playing music over HDMI with a MacBook Pro M1 Max now.
It confirms the Sony STR-DN1080 doesn’t understand DoP 1.0 or 1.1 over HDMI (not surprising here). The receiver will play the typical very low noise/signal that results from interpreting the PCM files as-is instead of decapsulating the DSD from it.
Audirvana on the Mac converts the same DSD/SACD ISO files to PCM without a problem and sends over HDMI as PCM. So not the same problem as on windows in that case. My Windows WASAPI etc… config must probably have some issues, but again I don’t use Windows typically for music so the previous test was sort of a one-off.
Here’s a quote from Audirvana’s webpage on troubleshooting a multichannel UPnP connection:
DSD playback doesn’t work
When playing to a UPNP device capable of supporting DSD with Audirvāna, the device must state it supports DFF. This information is available once your device is selected as an audio output in Audirvāna and going on the debug info. You can get it in Audirvana Settings>My account.
I think the same must be true for a wired connection, that Audirvana sends the file as .dff, which your receiver won’t play. In any case, here’s the page address, which will show you how to get the information you want from the debug info: How to troubleshoot UPNP connection?
), but that thread is very general and actually people try to find out also if DSD over HDMI works and for what devices, without a conclusive solution as far as I can read. It’s also quite a few years old.