Playing DSD 256 files

Hi
I’m new to this forum and also my knowledge about streaming is not the best. But as I say, the user is not an expert. My problem is as follows. through Audirvana I play DSD files specifically DSD 128 and DSD 256. Music plays from MacBook Pro 2019 to Moon 280D with MiND 2. Moon supports DSD 64, 128, 256. In Audirvana I made settings as described in various discussions on this site (MQA decoder, DSD over PCM 1.1 …). If I’m in UPnP mode, DSD 64, 128, 256 is supported. If I’m in Locally connected DAC mode, only DSD 64, 128 is supported. The logic of things and the possibilities of the Moon 280D with MiND 2 are clear :

  1. DSD 64, 128, 256 via USB only
  2. PCM up to 384kHz (32-bit on USB only)
  3. everything else via ethernet
    My question is as follows:
  4. why in DAC mode connected via USB Audirvana does not mention DSD 256 at all (Moon 280D with MiND 2 supports)
  5. how it is possible that in the UPnP mode Audirvana DSD 64, 128 and also 256 states and it is possible to play files. DSD 128 without any problems, DSD 256 overwhelms but with crackling of songs. Can you advise me how to play DSD 256 files?

Can you paste the debug info here?

what exactly do you mean by that?

While playing the DSD file, take the debug info from Audirvana and paste it here.

Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.44 (3574)
macOS 11.2.1 with 8192MB RAM

Registered to Alexander Hauskrecht

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
iZotope SRC not in use iZotope SRC filter parameters
Steepness = 150
Filter max length = 500000
Cut-Off (x Nyquist) = 100%
Anti-aliasing = 200
Phase = 100%

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: ON

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 2 folders
AUTO: /Volumes/music/
AUTO: /Users/alexanderhauskrecht/Music
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/alexanderhauskrecht/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Preferred device: 280D MiND 2 Living Room Model UID:Simaudio 280D MiND 2 Living Room UID:uuid:07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361

Currently playing to UPnP device at 32 bits 11289.6kHz
Selected device:
UPnP device at http://192.168.0.66:38211/07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361.xml
ID 0x0 280D MiND 2 Living Room Manufacturer:Simaudio
Model UID:Simaudio 280D MiND 2 Living Room UID:uuid:07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361

8 available sample rates up to 384000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000
352800
384000
Volume control: No
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to MQA Decoder
DSD capability: Raw DSD (MSB)
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
UPnP/DLNA supported protocols:
http-get::text/xml:DLNA.ORG_PN=DIDL_S
http-get:
:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get:
:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get::audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
http-get:
:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
http-get::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:
:audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:
:audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get::audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:text/xml:DLNA.ORG_PN=DIDL_S
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
rtsp-rtp-udp:
:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get::audio/x-flac:
http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:
http-get::audio/wav:
http-get::audio/mpeg:
http-get::audio/m4a:
http-get::audio/mp4:
http-get::audio/aiff:
http-get::audio/x-wav:
http-get::audio/aac:
http-get::audio/x-m4a:
http-get::audio/dsd:
http-get::audio/x_pm_flac:
http-get::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=1:
http-get::audio/x-dsd:
http-get::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=2:
http-get::audio/wave:
http-get::application/ogg:
http-get::audio/x-dsf:
http-get::text/xml:
http-get::audio/3gpp:
http-get::audio/vorbis:
http-get::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=1:
http-get::audio/x-dff:
http-get::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=2:
http-get::audio/x-aiff:
http-get::audio/flac:
http-get::audio/vnd.dlna.adts:
http-get::audio/ogg:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-flac:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-ms-wma:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/wav:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/mpeg:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/m4a:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/mp4:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/aiff:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-wav:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/aac:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-m4a:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/dsd:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x_pm_flac:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=1:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-dsd:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=44100;channels=2:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/wave:
rtsp-rtp-udp::application/ogg:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-dsf:
rtsp-rtp-udp::text/xml:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/3gpp:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/vorbis:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=1:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-dff:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/l16;rate=48000;channels=2:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/x-aiff:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/flac:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/vnd.dlna.adts:
rtsp-rtp-udp::audio/ogg:
DLNA 1.5: Yes
Gapless playback: Yes
Missing events workaround: Yes
Can play native DSD: Yes
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x0 0 channels starting at 0
27 virtual formats:
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 8 little endian Signed Integer 2822.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 8 little endian Signed Integer 5644.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 8 little endian Signed Integer 11289.6kHz

0 physical formats

Current device transportInfo:
CurrentTransportState: PLAYING
CurrentTransportStatus: OK
CurrentSpeed: 1
Current device MediaInfo:
NrTracks: 2
MediaDuration: 0:00:00
CurrentURI: http://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/audio_1_3.dff
CurrentURIMetadata:

dc:titleSamba Saravah</dc:title>
dc:creatorPierre Barough</dc:creator>
upnp:artistPierre Barough</upnp:artist>
upnp:genreVocal Jazz</upnp:genre>
upnp:albumArtURIhttp://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/artwork_1_4.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
upnp:albumDiana Panton: To Brazil with Love</upnp:album>
upnp:originalTrackNumber1</upnp:originalTrackNumber>
upnp:classobject.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
http://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/audio_1_3.dff

nextURI: http://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/audio_0_4.dff
nextURIMetadata: <DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/" xmlns:dlna="urn:schemas-dlna-org:metadata-1-0/">
This Happy Madness Vinicius de Moraes Vinicius de Moraes Vocal Jazz http://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/artwork_0_5.jpg Diana Panton: To Brazil with Love 2 object.item.audioItem.musicTrack http://192.168.0.122:49152/audirvana/audio_0_4.dff
PlayMedium: NETWORK
RecordMedium: NOT_IMPLEMENTED
WriteStatus: NOT_IMPLEMENTED

Current device AVT service description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 SetAVTransportURI InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID CurrentURI in AVTransportURI CurrentURIMetaData in AVTransportURIMetaData SetNextAVTransportURI InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID NextURI in NextAVTransportURI NextURIMetaData in NextAVTransportURIMetaData GetMediaInfo InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID NrTracks out NumberOfTracks MediaDuration out CurrentMediaDuration CurrentURI out AVTransportURI CurrentURIMetaData out AVTransportURIMetaData NextURI out NextAVTransportURI NextURIMetaData out NextAVTransportURIMetaData PlayMedium out PlaybackStorageMedium RecordMedium out RecordStorageMedium WriteStatus out RecordMediumWriteStatus GetMediaInfo_Ext InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID CurrentType out CurrentMediaCategory NrTracks out NumberOfTracks MediaDuration out CurrentMediaDuration CurrentURI out AVTransportURI CurrentURIMetaData out AVTransportURIMetaData NextURI out NextAVTransportURI NextURIMetaData out NextAVTransportURIMetaData PlayMedium out PlaybackStorageMedium RecordMedium out RecordStorageMedium WriteStatus out RecordMediumWriteStatus GetTransportInfo InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID CurrentTransportState out TransportState CurrentTransportStatus out TransportStatus CurrentSpeed out TransportPlaySpeed GetCurrentTransportActions InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Actions out CurrentTransportActions GetPositionInfo InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Track out CurrentTrack TrackDuration out CurrentTrackDuration TrackMetaData out CurrentTrackMetaData TrackURI out CurrentTrackURI RelTime out RelativeTimePosition AbsTime out AbsoluteTimePosition RelCount out RelativeCounterPosition AbsCount out AbsoluteCounterPosition GetDeviceCapabilities InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID PlayMedia out PossiblePlaybackStorageMedia RecMedia out PossibleRecordStorageMedia RecQualityModes out PossibleRecordQualityModes GetTransportSettings InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID PlayMode out CurrentPlayMode RecQualityMode out CurrentRecordQualityMode Stop InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Play InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Speed in TransportPlaySpeed Pause InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Seek InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Unit in A_ARG_TYPE_SeekMode Target in A_ARG_TYPE_SeekTarget Next InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID Previous InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID X_DLNA_GetBytePositionInfo InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID TrackSize out X_DLNA_CurrentTrackSize RelByte out X_DLNA_RelativeBytePosition AbsByte out X_DLNA_AbsoluteBytePosition SetPlayMode InstanceID in A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID NewPlayMode in CurrentPlayMode TransportState string STOPPED PAUSED_PLAYBACK PAUSED_RECORDING PLAYING RECORDING TRANSITIONING NO_MEDIA_PRESENT TransportStatus string OK ERROR_OCCURRED CurrentMediaCategory string NO_MEDIA TRACK_AWARE TRACK_UNAWARE CurrentTransportActions string PlaybackStorageMedium string UNKNOWN DV MINI-DV VHS W-VHS S-VHS D-VHS VHSC VIDEO8 HI8 CD-ROM CD-DA CD-R CD-RW VIDEO-CD SACD MD-AUDIO MD-PICTURE DVD-ROM DVD-VIDEO DVD-R DVD+RW DVD-RW DVD-RAM DVD-AUDIO DAT LD HDD MICRO-MV NETWORK NONE NOT_IMPLEMENTED SD PC-CARD MMC CF BD MS HD_DVD RecordStorageMedium string UNKNOWN DV MINI-DV VHS W-VHS S-VHS D-VHS VHSC VIDEO8 HI8 CD-ROM CD-DA CD-R CD-RW VIDEO-CD SACD MD-AUDIO MD-PICTURE DVD-ROM DVD-VIDEO DVD-R DVD+RW DVD-RW DVD-RAM DVD-AUDIO DAT LD HDD MICRO-MV NETWORK NONE NOT_IMPLEMENTED SD PC-CARD MMC CF BD MS HD_DVD PossiblePlaybackStorageMedia string NONE NETWORK PossibleRecordStorageMedia string CurrentPlayMode string NORMAL REPEAT_TRACK REPEAT_ONE REPEAT_ALL NORMAL TransportPlaySpeed string 1 1 RecordMediumWriteStatus string WRITABLE PROTECTED NOT_WRITABLE UNKNOWN NOT_IMPLEMENTED CurrentRecordQualityMode string 0:EP 1:LP 2:SP 0:BASIC 1:MEDIUM 2:HIGH NOT_IMPLEMENTED PossibleRecordQualityModes string NumberOfTracks ui4 0 512 CurrentTrack ui4 0 512 1 CurrentTrackDuration string CurrentMediaDuration string CurrentTrackMetaData string CurrentTrackURI string AVTransportURI string AVTransportURIMetaData string NextAVTransportURI string NextAVTransportURIMetaData string RelativeTimePosition string AbsoluteTimePosition string RelativeCounterPosition i4 AbsoluteCounterPosition i4 LastChange string A_ARG_TYPE_SeekMode string ABS_TIME REL_TIME TRACK_NR ABS_COUNT REL_COUNT X_DLNA_REL_BYTE A_ARG_TYPE_SeekTarget string A_ARG_TYPE_InstanceID ui4 X_DLNA_RelativeBytePosition string X_DLNA_AbsoluteBytePosition string X_DLNA_CurrentTrackSize string

Current device RootDevice description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1 280D MiND 2 Living Room Simaudio http://www.simaudio.com/ MiND 2 MOON 280D 000000 http://www.simaudio.com/ 501E2D3688E8 uuid:07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361 image/png 120 120 24 /LibRygelRenderer-120x120x24.png image/png 48 48 24 /LibRygelRenderer-48x48x24.png image/jpeg 120 120 24 /LibRygelRenderer-120x120x24.jpg image/jpeg 48 48 24 /LibRygelRenderer-48x48x24.jpg urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:ConnectionManager /xml/ConnectionManager.xml /Control/LibRygelRenderer/RygelSinkConnectionManager /Event/LibRygelRenderer/RygelSinkConnectionManager urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport /xml/AVTransport2.xml /Control/LibRygelRenderer/RygelAVTransport /Event/LibRygelRenderer/RygelAVTransport urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl /xml/RenderingControl2.xml /Control/LibRygelRenderer/RygelRenderingControl /Event/LibRygelRenderer/RygelRenderingControl urn:schemas-tencent-com:service:QPlay:1 urn:tencent-com:serviceId:QPlay /xml/QPlayDescription.xml /Control/LibRygelRenderer/QPlay /Event/LibRygelRenderer/QPlay http://192.168.0.66:80/ DMR-1.50

UPnP devices found : 2
Device #0: ID 0x0 280D MiND 2 Living Room UID: uuid:07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361 Location: http://192.168.0.66:38211/07f5febb-f99d-4a7b-808a-ef8574145361.xml
Device #1: ID 0x0 Denon AVR-X3100W UID: uuid:5f9ec1b3-ff59-19bb-8530-0005cd41e7c2 Location: http://192.168.0.12:8080/description.xml

CoreAudio audio path, buffer I/O frame size: 0

Max. memory for audio buffers: 5120MB

Local Audio Engine:
Exclusive access: Enabled
Integer mode: Enabled

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ID 0x4c Reproduktory MacBook Pro Manufacturer: Apple Inc. Model UID: Speaker UID: BuiltInSpeakerDevice
Device #1: ID 0x58 S801PM Manufacturer: 99a Model UID: 99a 500 UID: f4-4e-fd-42-d6-6c:output

Disable upsampling and select DoP 1.1 as Native DSD playback method. Try to play DSD256 file.

I checked the settings:

  1. in UPnP mode I already had resampling disabled + DoP 1.1 was also set
  2. in DAC mode connected to USB I had already had resampling disabled + DoP 1.1 was also set
    I already had your recommendations set. So it is still not possible to play DSD 256 files, respectively:
  3. in UPnP mode it can play it but in poor quality you understand cracking in the song during playback
  4. in DAC mode connected via USB, DSD 256 resamples it to 32 / 352.8 format when booting the warehouse

Even in DAC mode with a USB cable connected, Audirvana does not offer any DSD 256 in the settings. It only offers DSD 64 and 128, which plays excellently.

It looks like you can only do DSD256 using NativeDSD and ASIO driver. With DoP you’re limited to half that sample rate.

You can contact the manufacturer to inquire about that. In the meantime you can test with Windows PC, if you have one available to you.

Thank you for your prompt response. This is exactly what I was worried about, as you say in your report, “With DoP, you are limited to half that sampling frequency.”
I will contact Simaudio to comment on the possibility of playing DSD 256 files, as I have not read anywhere in their materials that I should be limited to the Windows operating system.

It’s not a general rule but many devices have this issue. I consider it an implementation flow.

Still you shouldn’t be concerned too much. There is really not that much native content in DSD256.

I also think that the difference between DSD 128 and DSD 256 will not be that big in terms of our perception. I can also live when listening to music with DSD 128, but especially with music that I will enjoy.

audirvana is playing dsd256 over DOP when the chord Qutest is used. When I am using the Yamaha wax-50 as my network output it will play up to dsd128. when I am trying to play 256 nothing happens.

That’s all this device supports. It does not support DSD256.

check the manual and you are right. Thanks for the clarification.