Update of Audrivana Studio for win10 from 1.9 to 2.1 breaks the SACD playback

Hello,

I have been using Audirvana from 2019 the last year I have been subscribing to Audirvana Studio (AS).
I just updated to AS2.1 and after that on the same setup and same arrangement of drivers and hardware there is a noise present when playing back SACD.ISOs I did not try DSD files as I needed to use the software. This little “uppdate” sent me off for some hours to find a backup of the 1.9 version that still works when I uninstalled 2.1 and reverted back to 1.9

This picture shows the frequency response of the head of the first track of an ISO image that hold minimal audio data but the track has anyway started.

This picture shows the frequency response from approximately the same position on the same ISO… This is somewhat more of what I would expect to see.

What is broken?

I am soon to extend my license but frankly I will not do it unless this is working OR that there is any way to download older versions. Now I was lucky that I could revert to version 1.9 (10900) but most are not that lucky. I experienced identical problems in v2.0.4.0 that I also had laying around.

On a side note also related to SACD it seems to be a brick wall low pass filter @ app 22.1kHz. Why is that?.. it is easy to see in the noise of AS2.1 but when I playback in AS1.9 it is not much happening over 22.1k. Foobar for one even give a slight overshoot of noise up over 30-40k which would be nice to choose to have at least. Some of the tonal qualities that AS1.9 show is not there in Foobar but if I analyze my SACD player I can make the high end in this area to be just as unfiltered as Foobar is playing. Audirvana did play nicely ALSO up in this region in the past before possibly 3.1 of the old version. So, question is why is it not matching what a high end player does in terms of filtering?

Note, I do not believe hear the actual 20k + frequencies but I hear the limitation that it implies in the time domain. :wink: ) I also limit the playback to 96k hence I only see up to 48k This is in order to be able to playback in a professional environment with external word clock. I have found that a stable clock is to prefer any day of the week beyond what the higher FS are doing when using internal clocks that leaves quite a bit to wish for. The SRCs are quite decent these days in these software’s.

This is unrelated to my problem as it is the same settings and the same system that produces these different results. The brick wall filter is however seen here quite clearly in the non functional 2.1

I enclose my debug data below of both 1.9 that works and of 2.1 that does NOT work.

Cheers,

/F


Audirvana Studio 1.9.0 (10900)

Windows 10 (19045) with 32GB physical RAM

Connected account of :

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX custom frequencies
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5%
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66%

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: F:\SACD 2.0-5.1
Library database path: C:\Users\fg\AppData\Local\Audirvana\Audirvana\AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Remote Control server:
Listening on 192.168.20.30 on port 52309

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
Qobuz: Connected as Qobuz Studio
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Max. memory for audio buffers: 12838MB

Local Audio Engine: ASIO ASIO 2 driver version 2

Preferred device:

Model UID:
UID:

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 8ch 32bits Integer, 32 bytes per frame 96kHz

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: 96kHz
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model Name: ASIO Link Pro
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro

1 available sample rates up to 96000Hz
96000
Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled
Device audio channels
Multichannel: 8 channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox63f, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
Channel 2 mapped to 2
Channel 3 mapped to 3
Channel 4 mapped to 4
Channel 5 mapped to 5
Channel 6 mapped to 6
Channel 7 mapped to 7

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 8
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 8, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
Channel #2 :Stream 0 channel 2
Channel #3 :Stream 0 channel 3
Channel #4 :Stream 0 channel 4
Channel #5 :Stream 0 channel 5
Channel #6 :Stream 0 channel 6
Channel #7 :Stream 0 channel 7
8 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 96kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ASIO Link Pro Manufacturer: Model UID: ASIO Link Pro UID: ASIO Link Pro Model Name: ASIO Link Pro
Device #1: MOTU Pro Audio Manufacturer: Model UID: MOTU Pro Audio UID: MOTU Pro Audio Model Name: MOTU Pro Audio

UPnP devices found : 0


Audirvana Studio 2.1.0 (20100)

Windows 10 (19045) with 32GB physical RAM

Connected account of : Fredrik Gunnarsson

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX custom frequencies
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5%
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66%

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: F:\SACD 2.0-5.1
Library database path: C:\Users\fg\AppData\Local\Audirvana\Audirvana\AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Remote Control server:
Listening on 100.64.100.6 on port 57591

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
Qobuz: Connected as Qobuz Studio
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 12538MB

Local Audio Engine: ASIO 2
Driver version 2
Use max I/O buffer size: ON

Preferred device:
ASIO Link Pro
Model UID:ASIO Link Pro
UID:ASIO Link Pro

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 8ch 32bits Integer, 32 bytes per frame 96kHz

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: 96kHz
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model name: ASIO Link Pro
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro

1 available sample rates up to 96000Hz
96000

Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled

Device audio channels
Multichannel: 8 channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox63f, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
Channel 2 mapped to 2
Channel 3 mapped to 3
Channel 4 mapped to 4
Channel 5 mapped to 5
Channel 6 mapped to 6
Channel 7 mapped to 7

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 8
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 8, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
Channel #2 :Stream 0 channel 2
Channel #3 :Stream 0 channel 3
Channel #4 :Stream 0 channel 4
Channel #5 :Stream 0 channel 5
Channel #6 :Stream 0 channel 6
Channel #7 :Stream 0 channel 7
8 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 96kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro
Model name: ASIO Link Pro
Device #1: MOTU Pro Audio
Manufacturer:
Model UID: MOTU Pro Audio
UID: MOTU Pro Audio
Model name: MOTU Pro Audio

UPnP

UPnP devices found : 0

Chromecast

Chromecast devices found : 0

Couldn’t agree with this more :+1:
There should be a way of retrieving legacy versions, for those who either don’t like the latest version after an update, or where the latest version may possibly break their existing install.

Do you have this behavior with all of your SACD ISO files?

Hello @Antoine,

I have a good number of ISOs so to state “all” is bald but at least 20+ shows this problem.
None of the same ISOs have problems when used in AS 1.9 I see no difference between ISOs in this regard.

I will “upgrade” again to see if it is limited to ISOs or if there is also a problem with DSF files.

Cheers,
/F

Hi Again @Antoine

Now I have “upgraded” and browsed through a number of more ISOs and also DSF files of all sorts and the situation is solid. It does not function same way as previously described in 2.1. It does work in !.9.

Cheers,

F

Hi @Antoine

Out of some reason my last reply that confirm the problem is also existing on DSF files and at least 50+ of SACD ISOs i.e. non of them work, this reply was marked as the solution to this problem. I can reassure it is still a problem in 2.1 not so in 1.9 as previously described.

Looking forward to a solution.

Cheers,

F

Hi @bfgunn,

Can you please post your debug info while reproducing your issue on the 2.2 version?

Hi There @Antoine, thanks for your efforts,

I must say it was not clear to me that there was a version 2.2 before I answered as the update from 1.9 did not flag anything else than the availability of the 2.1 update. The problem is consistent in 2.2 as well. My hardware has not changed as you can see in the debug file. the situation is still that it works confirmed in 1.9. It does not work in 2.1 or 2.2.

Thanks for looking in to this!

Here is my debug info:


Audirvana Studio 2.2.0 (20200)

Windows 10 (19045) with 32GB physical RAM

Connected account of :

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX custom frequencies
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5%
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66%

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: ON

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 2 folders
AUTO: F:\FLAC 4.0-7.1
AUTO: F:\SACD 2.0-5.1
Library database path: C:\Users\fg\AppData\Local\Audirvana\Audirvana\AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Remote Control server:
Listening on 192.168.20.30 on port 65077

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
Qobuz: Connected as Qobuz Studio
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 12214MB

Local Audio Engine: ASIO 2
Driver version 2
Use max I/O buffer size: ON

Preferred device:

Model UID:
UID:

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 8ch 32bits Integer, 32 bytes per frame 96kHz

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: 96kHz
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model name: ASIO Link Pro
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro

1 available sample rates up to 96000Hz
96000

Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled

Device audio channels
Multichannel: 8 channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox63f, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
Channel 2 mapped to 2
Channel 3 mapped to 3
Channel 4 mapped to 4
Channel 5 mapped to 5
Channel 6 mapped to 6
Channel 7 mapped to 7

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 8
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 8, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
Channel #2 :Stream 0 channel 2
Channel #3 :Stream 0 channel 3
Channel #4 :Stream 0 channel 4
Channel #5 :Stream 0 channel 5
Channel #6 :Stream 0 channel 6
Channel #7 :Stream 0 channel 7
8 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 96kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro
Model name: ASIO Link Pro
Device #1: MOTU Pro Audio
Manufacturer:
Model UID: MOTU Pro Audio
UID: MOTU Pro Audio
Model name: MOTU Pro Audio

UPnP

UPnP devices found : 0

Chromecast

Chromecast devices found : 0

Hi @bfgunn, have you tried to reproduce this behavior without upsampling and software volume control activated?

Hello @Antoine,

I have switched off these two features now and increased my sample rate to 176.4k There is no difference in the presence of the noise. Now I tried the Hardware ASIO Driver directly and it seems it is the previously used software driver that causes the cut off at 22k that I was complaining about in the past. So the root cause of that particular part of the problem was only clearly shown by the noise problem, One down, still the main problem left to solve.


As you can see there is now output up to 2/FS from the noise that should not be there.
There are are however some nasty resonances showing up around 150 and 400 Hz at this point that is just an as quiet SACD stream as it technically can get. the music gets distorted in a completely different way when modulated with this signal that is somewhat expected. So… things changes with increasing Sample rate more than anything else, but does not solve either by sample rate or disabling of these mentioned features.

in 1.9 there are no such problems neither with or without these features enabled or at any sample rate or with any of my available ASIO cards.

Just ignore the grey line in the plots as I need to skip back to the start of the track this reflects what later is present in the actual audio content that do play but buried in the noise present at all times.

Keep up the good work in trying to fetch this bug.
Anything I can do let me know.

Enclosing the debug info for this situation.

Audirvana Studio 2.2.1 (20201)

Windows 10 (19045) with 32GB physical RAM

Connected account of :

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX not in use
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5%
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66%

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 2 folders
AUTO: F:\FLAC 4.0-7.1
AUTO: F:\SACD 2.0-5.1
Library database path: C:\Users\fg\AppData\Local\Audirvana\Audirvana\AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Remote Control server:
Listening on 192.168.20.30 on port 52150

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
Qobuz: Connected as Qobuz Studio
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 11702MB

Local Audio Engine: ASIO 2
Driver version 2
Use max I/O buffer size: ON

Preferred device:
MOTU Pro Audio
Model UID:MOTU Pro Audio
UID:MOTU Pro Audio

Active Sample Rate: 176.4kHz

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: 176.4kHz
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:MOTU Pro Audio
Manufacturer:
Model name: MOTU Pro Audio
Model UID: MOTU Pro Audio
UID: MOTU Pro Audio

6 available sample rates up to 192000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000

Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled

Device audio channels
Multichannel: 12 channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
Channel 2 mapped to 2
Channel 3 mapped to 3
Channel 4 mapped to 4
Channel 5 mapped to 5
Channel 6 mapped to 6
Channel 7 mapped to 7
Channel 8 mapped to 8
Channel 9 mapped to 9
Channel 10 mapped to 10
Channel 11 mapped to 11

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 12
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 12, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
Channel #2 :Stream 0 channel 2
Channel #3 :Stream 0 channel 3
Channel #4 :Stream 0 channel 4
Channel #5 :Stream 0 channel 5
Channel #6 :Stream 0 channel 6
Channel #7 :Stream 0 channel 7
Channel #8 :Stream 0 channel 8
Channel #9 :Stream 0 channel 9
Channel #10 :Stream 0 channel 10
Channel #11 :Stream 0 channel 11
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 44.1kHz
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 48kHz
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 88.2kHz
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 96kHz
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 176.4kHz
12 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 192kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: ASIO Link Pro
Manufacturer:
Model UID: ASIO Link Pro
UID: ASIO Link Pro
Model name: ASIO Link Pro
Device #1: MOTU Pro Audio
Manufacturer:
Model UID: MOTU Pro Audio
UID: MOTU Pro Audio
Model name: MOTU Pro Audio

UPnP

UPnP devices found : 0

Chromecast

Chromecast devices found : 0

Hello @Antoine,

It hits me that the drivers I am using conforms to the relatively “new” Multiclient ASIO driver structure that previously was a separate driver introduced back in 2012. MOTU among many others have this layer applied directly in the driver now,

Is this possibly part of the problem?

It is still the same problem for DSD files and SACD isos they play fine in AS 1.9 and up to AS 2.2 does not work but I was studying the complexity of allot of other drivers here on the forum and comparing to my driver it is very straight forward but I assume none of them have this feature that is the new normal for ASIO drivers.

I am running close to my renewal date now so some kind of roadmap of when you target to fix this problem would be appreciated or if you regard this problem as unimportant to nail down.

Warmest Seasons Greetings,

/F

Have you tried the driver ASIO4ALL with your device to check if you still get the same issue?

Hello @Antoine,

Out of some reason I don’t get any email notifications anymore so sorry if my response gets slow.

ASIO4 all have the same horrible noise as any of the other drivers.
It further show cutoff at 22.05k just as it was with ASIO Link PRO in my previous config that I don’t use any more, possibly because ASIO4All use the windows sound engine that is not something I voluntarily touch if it can be avoided.

Audirvana further don’t see ASIO4all as a 7.1 output despite that this driver is a 24 channel MME driver so any multichannel content that flawlessly plays in AS 1.9 AND in AS 2.2.3 (FLACS or other Mp4 files that dont have any noise issues) crashes after a few minutes of playback in stereo only, a downmix that any AS version seems to fail to manage the buffering of and soon results in a crash of the software within minutes. I have noticed this last bug quite some time but using a driver such as the ASIO driver of the MOTU soundcard directly do manage to get these same files in 5.1 or 7.1 depending on the format and Audirvana dont crash for hours and hours on end of playback. This is a separate issue.

so… This Asio4All combination with AS 2.2.3 showed more bugs and still no prevail for the original regression of function that still work flawless in AS1.9 on the original MOTU ASIO driver, same as I use in AS 2.2.3 that still show the same problem with noise as previously described as of all other later than 1.9 versions I have tried.

Sorry for asking but what is it that you do in 1.9 that works that you just cant do in any later version of the software? We have been going back and forth now for quite some time. You know what version works and that later version makes it screw up… seems to me that you need to roll back to the audio engine of 1.9? I am open to try any small number upgrade from 1.9 what ever was available so I can confirm what version stops to work. I know 2.0 also the beta for 2.0 before that already was not working same way as now latest version.

With a library of versions available to us forum users I would already have done this, if there are any versions in between, and you could have the feedback of exactly what update that are going south, here at least. Just a recommendation to make us more useful here on the forum as well for other bugs and issues.

It is because I want it to work that I still ask questions and provide feedback and suggestions.

Warmest as ever,

/F

Hi @bfgunn,

I took a look at the change we have made between the 1.9 and 2.1 and we have not change anything about ASIO. Can you please try to reproduce the same thing with WASAPI instead?