ZEN Stream with Audirvana setup

Well, let’s look at specifics.

How much of its $400 price is devoted to the built-in DAC? This is fairly easy to guesstimate, since the IFi Zen non-streaming DAC sells for $200. So that will work as a rough guess, leaving $200 of the sales price to devote to the streamer.

The streamer section is built around an off the shelf 64-bit quad core ARM Cortex CPU. It runs an open source Linux OS aimed at audio aficionados called Volumio, which is packed with features (able to run Roon, Tidal, run searches through your recordings, multiroom playback, streams over Sonos and Chromecast, suggests new or related artists based on your listening, etc.). Get Started - Volumio

Mini-PCs with this CPU capable of running a full-featured Linux OS like this run in the neighborhood of $135 and up. The mini-PC market is subject to much larger sales, much greater competition, and therefore much lower price markups than the audiophile streamer market. It’s therefore doubtful that iFi has been able to customize the streamer section to any great extent or it would take up considerably more than the $200 of the Zen Stream’s sales price that we’ve been able to estimate by subtracting out the price of the Zen DAC. In other words, the streamer section of the Zen Stream is very probably built much like a $135+ range mini-PC.

In its marketing copy about the CPU, iFi emphasizes its power. This is natural, since it has to run the many Volumio OS features. More power output, more noise.

In my setup, I’m using a mini-PC that starts at $265 and is a little under $200 more than that as I’ve furnished it. Thus the parts cost of the design is very probably somewhere between double and 3 times the parts cost of the Zen’s streamer section. It is running a minimized Linux server OS, which means it doesn’t need to run any graphics, and it is not packed with features I don’t use. Thus, besides having its BIOS optimized for low jitter, the CPU is not called upon to provide a lot of power, and therefore noise is minimized.

The mini-PC is connected to an iFi DAC that retails for 4 times the price of the Zen DAC, so again at a rough guess, parts cost for my DAC is approximately 4 times that of the Zen Stream’s DAC section.

Now obviously the customer for the $400 Zen Stream is likely not going to be the same as the one for a mini-PC and DAC that together cost something more than $1200. And that’s fine - choices are good.

You are presuming iFi-Audio engineers have not designed their own system to run on the ARM FPGA… I presume they have designed the software specifically optimized for their platform design(s) and application scenarios… This allows them to bias performance parameters.

I configured a minimal build-to-order Atom x6425E [CX6425] Fitlet3 for $515 USD before taxes and shipping…

I believe as an audiophile, not all is as it seems, however there is a track-record to take into consideration in the case of the dedicated use-specific design of Zen Stream in any given audiophile playback system. And as an audiophile, nuanced subtleties make appreciably audible difference, in the final audition… Many years ago I designed circuit-board layouts for Hewlett Packard FPGA DUT fixtures (Device Under Test)… believe me, circuit topology alone has a huge impact on subtle performance parameters of all devices involved. :wink: The design engineers sweat the small stuff in my experience, and the results are evident in the performance of the system.

Volumio isn’t their own system. I see an ARM CPU; is there an FPGA called out somewhere?

Yes, the reason I presume the software isn’t customized to any great extent is two-fold. First, they say they started with Volumio and “optimized” it, but the capabilities appear to be much the same. Second, the cost constraints would dictate not paying for a great deal of software engineers’ design time.

Regarding hardware, again we have the cost constraint, particularly in the world of audio manufacturing.

Arm Cortex-M on FPGA – Arm®
Arm Cortex-X4 Core
Documentation – Arm Developer

Apparently IFI-Audio engineers are using a custom software implementation, that is vertically integrated in the platform design architecture in-order to bias the performance of the system as required, to realize their audiophile design goals…

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

I understand there is an Arm Cortex FPGA combination available (made together with Xilinx). I’m reasonably certain this is different than the quad core 64-bit ARM CPU used in the Zen Stream, unless you have specific information to the contrary.

Taken right off of the ZEN Stream overview…

Exactly, it’s a CPU, unless you have a specific reference that says it is a combo with an FPGA.

As already noted, iFi, as mentioned in their overview and also their media release regarding the Zen Stream, are using an open source Linux OS for software, which may have some in-house tweaks done to it.

Now regarding their hardware platform, if you look at photos of the Zen Stream’s circuit board you’ll see that’s not designed in house either, but is bought in from a company called Firefly. (You can search for Firefly Core boards and match the ID number seen on the board in the photo that appears in iFi’s overview.)

Okay I see…
What programming language is used to create Volumio? In today’s world of code, all software is derived from source-code… I see when source-code is modified to suit, it is purposefully customized for specific reasons…

I see the Core-3288J board uses a ARM® Cortex™-A17 Quad-Core up to 1.8GHz that is not off-the-shelf, because the empty pad seen in the ZEN Stream board image, is probably for the GPU that is specified on the Core-3288J board… I can see at an economy of scale, the purchase of ‘stuffed’ boards makes economic sense… and FireFly being an OEM most likely will do custom stuffing for customers…

Customization

With over a decade of experience in product design, R&D, and manufacturing, Firefly not
only consistently launches market-ready standard products, but also provides
customized services, including hardware, software, devices, and OEM.
https://en.t-firefly.com/businesscustomization

I am going to presume the quality of these board designs suit the audiophile needs of the iFi engineering/design team… and will presume that the critical software and component topology that is not already part of the Core-3288J board is customized by iFI-Audio engineering… It does not look like iFI-Audio is employing an off-the-shelf FireFly I/O board… and if it is, I presume it is customized for iFI-Audio…

Do you own a Zen Stream? If not, have you ever listened to one for any significant period of time, or at all?

Does it matter…? I’ve never heard a system with a Fitlet3 either.

So you have jumped into my thread, where I posted a link to help folks who might want to do a little DIY streamer project, to spam it with what are, if I’ve counted correctly, 11 comments extolling the virtues of a piece of equipment you’ve never heard in your life.

I’m not sure what the cause of this compulsion is, but I’m going to see whether the moderators will consider removing the irrelevant comments, mine as well as yours.

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No… I’ve juxtaposed an audiophile solution that is readily available at a reasonable price as compared to your Fitlet3 solution and qualified some distinct rationale for comparison… If given a choice of jumping through hoops to kluge together some hardware and software that you are exploiting, and purchasing a component built specifically for the application, by a well respected engineering team, I’ll choose the latter… This does not mean that your system design is in vain… I peg you as an audiophile in all respects, and appreciate your continued insights into this realm. :sunglasses:

This is the premise that I used to extrapolate a broader discussion about platform performance and design factors, because it was not about the actual Fitlet3 system configuration, it was about the performance of a Fitlet3 configuration:

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes: