Can audirvana stream original DSD file via DLNA

tifusa · February 8, 2020, 10:36pm

Hi, I am new to here.

I find the latest windows version does not recognize my newly bought Marantz NR1200 as a native DSD player, and it only stream DoP to it via DLNA.

Blockquote
Preferred device: Marantz NR1200 Model UID:Marantz Marantz NR1200 UID:uuid:733841da-0b88-0cc7-15ba-2104cf0a7d6d

Selected device:

UPnP device at http://10.0.0.12:60006/upnp/desc/aios_device/aios_device.xml

Marantz NR1200 Manufacturer:Marantz

Model UID:Marantz Marantz NR1200 UID:uuid:733841da-0b88-0cc7-15ba-2104cf0a7d6d

6 available sample rates up to 192000Hz

44100

48000

88200

96000

176400

192000

Volume control: No

MQA capability

Auto-detect MQA devices: No

Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA

DSD capability: Unhandled

Device audio channels

Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1

Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:

Channel 0 mapped to 0

Channel 1 mapped to 1

UPnP/DLNA supported protocols:

http-get::audio/mpeg:

http-get::audio/vnd.dlna.adts:

http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:

http-get::audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:

http-get::audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:

http-get::audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:

http-get::audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:

http-get::audio/wav:

http-get::audio/mp3:

http-get::audio/flac:

http-get::audio/aac:

http-get::audio/m4a:

DLNA 1.5: No

Gapless playback: Yes

Missing events workaround: No

Can play native DSD: No

Number of channels: 2

Use as stereo device only: No

Blockquote

I know DoP is still technically bitstream, but the problem is that my NR1200 only play original DSD file, otherwise it sounds like white noise.
I am wondering is there any way to stream DSD file in its original format with audirvana?

Antoine · February 10, 2020, 8:59am

Hello @tifusa, It is possible that Marantz is only making this capability available on their app. Have you contacted them regarding this?

tifusa · February 10, 2020, 2:30pm

Hi Damien, I tried a DLNA software suggested by @VoyagerDude who had the same issue with his Marantz device, and the software also streamed my dsd collection without any problem. Therefore, I think my Marantz device also supports the DLNA protocols such as

http-get: :audio/dsd:
http-get: :audio/x-dsd:
http-get: :audio/x-dsf:
http-get: :audio/x-dff:

I suggest a solution can be that Audirvana add a selection of DSD capability as stream in the original format as Raw DSD (MSB).
From a user who reported Audirvana streams stereo dsd to his receiver, his debug info says that Audirvana is capable to use the protocols mentioned above as long as the flag of native DSD playback is checked.

Compared to his debug info, I guess the capability issue with Marantz is caused by an error that Audirvana does not recognize Marantz devices as DLNA 1.5 devices.

FYI, his debug info is as follows:
https://community.audirvana.com/t/audirvana-dont-let-play-multichannel-in-upnp/7264/8

Preferred device: Mastering Room Model UID:Yamaha Corporation Mastering Room UID:uuid:9ab0c000-f668-11de-9976-00a0ded9d439

Selected device:
UPnP device at http://10.0.8.49:49154/MediaRenderer/desc.xml
ID 0x0 Mastering Room Manufacturer:Yamaha Corporation
Model UID:Yamaha Corporation Mastering Room UID:uuid:9ab0c000-f668-11de-9976-00a0ded9d439

6 available sample rates up to 192000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000
Volume control: No
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not a MQA device, user set to MQA Renderer
DSD capability: Raw DSD (MSB)
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1
UPnP/DLNA supported protocols:
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=44100:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=44100:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=48000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=48000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=32000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=32000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=88200:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=88200:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=96000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=96000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=64000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=64000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=22050:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=22050:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=24000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=24000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=16000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=16000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=11025:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=11025:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=12000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=12000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=2;rate=8000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16;channels=1;rate=8000:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/L16:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get: :audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get: :audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get: :audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get: :audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMDRM_WMABASE
http-get: :audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMDRM_WMAFULL
http-get: :audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS
http-get: :audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_192
http-get: :audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_320
http-get: :audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get: :audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_192
http-get: :audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get: :audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get: :audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_192
http-get: :audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get: :audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get: :audio/vnd.dlna.adts:
http-get: :audio/x-flac:
http-get: :audio/x-mpeg:
http-get: :audio/x-aac:
http-get: :audio/x-mp3:
http-get: :audio/x-mp4:
http-get: :audio/x-mpg:
http-get: :audio/x-wav:
http-get: :audio/3gpp:
http-get: :audio/aacp:
http-get: :audio/aiff:
http-get: :audio/x-aiff:
http-get: :audio/flac:
http-get: :audio/mpeg:
http-get: :audio/aac:
http-get: :audio/m4a:
http-get: :audio/mp3:
http-get: :audio/mp4:
http-get: :audio/dsd:
http-get: :audio/x-dsd:
http-get: :audio/x-dsf:
http-get: :audio/x-dff:
http-get: :audio/wav:
DLNA 1.5: Yes
Gapless playback: Yes
Missing events workaround: No
Can play native DSD: Yes
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No

Antoine · February 10, 2020, 2:59pm

@tifusa, the information you get in the debug info are directly from your DAC capability. The information you describe are from a different manufacturer on a different device as your Marantz. As i told you, did you contacted Marantz regarding this?

tifusa · February 12, 2020, 10:28am

As I said, I believe this is an issue caused by Audirvana. I believe it is not caused by the maker restricting DSD playback to their official player, since I can stream DSD to my receiver without any problem using a variety of players, including the JRiver, another commercial software.
The reason why I quote the debug info from another maker is that I find the Audirvana has been capable to do what I am asking for here, and I believe the difference in debug info (Can play native DSD & DLNA 1.5) tells the reason why my Marantz does not work well with Audirvana, as Audirvana does not read this info correctly!
Based on my finding, I suggest an easy fix to this issue, which is just adding another choice in the DSD streaming method as original in addition to the DoP. I cannot understand why we don’t have the choice currently, but Audirvana is able to do so.

VoyagerDude · February 18, 2020, 9:43am

So any chance we will get the ability to send native DSD to a DLNA Renderer when Audirvana doesn’t detect that capability correctly like in the new crop of Marantz devices? @Antoine

tifusa · February 19, 2020, 4:34am

Actually I contacted Marantz for this issue, and they replied that it is not caused by their implementation, but Audirvana’s fault, since DLNA is not fully supported by Audirvana, and their suggestion is using jriver instead.

Antoine · February 24, 2020, 3:21pm

Hello @tifusa, Marantz made the choice to not implement Native DSD for DLNA but, as you said, made the DSD capability available through DLNA using DoP.

VoyagerDude · February 24, 2020, 6:18pm

That is not true @Antoine

Native as is Dsf playback works fine on all 4 Marantz players I have with any other software except Audirvana.

tifusa · March 17, 2020, 12:17am

Marantz said they only support native playback not the DoP playback. And it is proven by other commercial software. It is Audirvana’s fault that it doesn’t recognize Marantz’s device as native DSD player.
If Audirvana’s auto detect doesn’t work correctly, at least let us choose it manually in the same way as MQA playback.

Antoine · March 17, 2020, 10:24am

Hello @tifusa , DoP is a way to send NativeDSD to a device, it’s just not bandwidth optimized as Natice DSD is. The other software may use DoP but they may not be transparent about it. What you see in the Debug info is the reality of your DAC capability, it’s not decided by Audirvana.

VoyagerDude · March 17, 2020, 2:53pm

Ok you’re saying the DOP is a way to send DSD.
Is there a way to send DSD as is?

I saw some options in minim server for example on how to handle dsd dsf files.
Minim gives an option to send dop or as is.

Also like we keep saying time after time: every other player has no issues playing dsd on the given marantz devices. We have you a number of examples. But you keep ignoring that and stating that Audirvana is somehow correct by not being able to handle what all other player can.

This is very frustrating. Wish I never bought the remote app for iOS.

VoyagerDude · September 4, 2020, 1:54am

@Antoine

I’m still hoping to get DSD via DLNA working with Marantz PM7000N.
Like we know already Audirvana does not detect is as DSD capable, even though it is working with other apps like HEOS, Glider (iOS), MusicLife (Harmann) etc.

Looking at debug info when connecting to a Marantz NA6005 (this device detects as DSD) I see that Audirvana sends a dff to the renderer:
CurrentURI: http://192.168.1.115:49152/audirvana/audio_0_6.dff

When looking at this and trying to play to PM7000N, with Audirvana set to DSD over PCM I see:
CurrentURI: http://192.168.1.115:49152/audirvana/audio_0_8.wav
But all I get is low volume white noise.

Would you consider trying a test version of the app where it would allow me to send native DSD (dff) to the renderer, even though it’s not detected as DSD?

VoyagerDude · September 4, 2020, 2:19am

@Antoine, cc @tifusa

Here is what I have tried just now.

Copied the stream URL http://192.168.1.115:49152/audirvana/audio_0_8.wav
Downloaded the resulting file via Safari to my laptop
Installed a Mac app called SofaPlay which can send files to DLNA/UPNP a renderer https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sofaplay-lite/id577241537?mt=12
Dropped the WAV file onto SofaPlay and PM7000N played it just fine as native DSD.

I couldn’t find an app quickly that can send a network stream to a renderer but this also indicates that the device is clearly capable of playing a DSD originating from Audirvana.

Please see attached images.

RunHomeSlow · September 4, 2020, 2:37am

Mmmm, .wav is not DSD native file !?! i might be wrong again…

VoyagerDude · September 4, 2020, 3:44am

Maybe it’s packaged into pcm I’m not sure but the device plays it. And recognized it as a dsd stream correctly.

The source Dsf file and this wav are both around 160MB. I’ll compare the files when back at the computer.

RunHomeSlow · September 4, 2020, 3:53am

maybe your device is set to upsample everything to dsd ?

VoyagerDude · September 4, 2020, 3:58am

Definitely not, it’s plays FLAC and DSF and everything as is

VoyagerDude · September 4, 2020, 3:59am

The source DSF file and the one from Audirvana are similar size but different

RunHomeSlow · September 4, 2020, 4:07am

well you show me 3 different thing at the same weight…one dsd audio, one .wav file and one .dff file… that .dff is dsd, the .wav not and i can’t see the first one but it seems to say it is DSd audio
those red pict…i’m not that programmer… that look like chinese to me