Different formats shown at bottom of Audirvana 3.5 page

I’m sure this question has been asked many times before, but I’m confused about what I’m actually listening to when the bottom left of Audirvana states DSF and the right hand side states 24/44.1 kHz.
The files in question were very recently downloaded from NativeDSD and are in 128DSD format.

Many thanks for assistance

Hello @Johnno,

Can you send a ascreenshot and a copy of the “Debug Info” when you have this behavior? You can get it in Audirvana Settings>General>Debug Info

Please remove the line corresponding to your logged-in account to avoid displaying your email address and first name/last name publicly.

Note: By clicking on the Debug Info button, Audirvana automatically copies all its content, all you have to do is paste it in response to this message

Hi Antoine,

I don’t see the personal details you’ve mentioned, so I hope it’s all OK.

Here is the Debug info:-

Audirvana 3.5.46

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX not in use
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 25 folders
Manual: (OFFLINE) N:\Music\Brückner, Michael\The Crossing of Zone 3 (DL 16-44.1 WAV)\Michael Brückner - The Crossing of Zone 3
Manual: (OFFLINE) N:\Music\Cyclical Dreams\Gemstones II\Cyclical Dreams - Gemstones II -CYD 0035
AUTO: N:\Music\DASK\DASK - Electron Hell (24-Bit)
AUTO: N:\Music\DSD Files\NativeDSD Downloads\Chasing A Dream (Pure DSD) - HRES2122\DSD 128fs - 2ch
AUTO: N:\Music\Farn, Pete\RePete! (DL 16-44.1 WAV)\Pete Farn - RePete!
AUTO: N:\Music\HDTracks Downloads\Jethro Tull\Aqualung (96kHz - 24bit)
AUTO: N:\Music\HDTracks Downloads\Jethro Tull\Thick as a Brick [96kHz · 24bit]
AUTO: N:\Music\HDTracks Downloads\Steve Roach\Live at SoundQuest Fest 2021 [96kHz · 24bit]
Manual: (OFFLINE) N:\Music\Kontroll-Raum\[email protected]\Kontroll-Raum - Kontroll-Raum Live @ BYSS October 2nd- 2020
AUTO: N:\Music\Nock, Mike - New Zealand Trio\Vicissitudes
AUTO: N:\Music\Rogue Element\Storm Passage (DL 16-44-1 WAV)\Rogue Element - Storm Passage
AUTO: N:\Music\Santana\Abraxas [176_4kHz · 24bit]
AUTO: N:\Music\Wøllo, Erik\Winter Tide (Live at SoundQuest Fest 2021) [96kHz · 24bit]
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\2L\Nordheim, Arne
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\AD Music\Andy Pickford\Vanguard #1 (H)
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\AD Music\David Wright\Stranger Days
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Bandcamp\Broekhuis, Bas - Rothe, Frank - Schoenwaelder, Mario\Kontroll-Raum - Check In
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Bandcamp\Fusion of Elements aka Syndromeda & Sensory++ - Sessions in the Quantum Field (24 Bit)
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Bandcamp\Nemesis with Juha-Matti Rautiainen\Kono Sessions 2 (DL 16-44.1 WAV)
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Bandcamp\RadioSilence\Newton’s Cradle (DL 24-44.1 WAV)
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Chandos Records\Lyatoshynsky Voices from the East
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\HighResAudio\Shostakovich 4th\Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra & Vasily Petrenko
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Lambert Ringlage\Heimann, Rudolf\Trancefusion - WAV (DR)
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Presto Classical\Rachmaninov Symphony 1 and Symphonic Dances
AUTO: J:\Local Disk\Music\Rainbow Serpent\Frank Specht WAV files\Futuregate (1995) (DL)
Library database path: J:\Local Disk\Music\AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Max. memory for audio buffers: 1038MB

Local Audio Engine:WASAPI

Preferred device:
Speakers (iFi (by AMR) HD+ USB Audio)
Model UID:Speakers (iFi (by AMR) HD+ USB Audio)
UID:\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{459cc387-a1a1-4c1e-ad2a-8dd2a14105dd}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 2ch 24bits Integer, 8 bytes per frame 44.1kHz

Active Sample Rate: 44.1kHz

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
Speakers (High Definition Audio Device) Manufacturer:
Model UID:Speakers (High Definition Audio Device) UID:\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{c6e7db37-d911-46dd-b340-3d46f3200040}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}

4 available sample rates up to 192000Hz
44100
48000
96000
192000
Volume Control
Physical: Yes
Virtual: No
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 44.1kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 20bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 44.1kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 44.1kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 48kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 20bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 48kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 48kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 96kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 20bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 96kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 96kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 192kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 20bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 192kHz
2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 192kHz

Local devices found : 2
Device #0: Speakers (High Definition Audio Device) Manufacturer: Model UID: Speakers (High Definition Audio Device) UID: \?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{c6e7db37-d911-46dd-b340-3d46f3200040}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
Device #1: Digital Audio (S/PDIF) (High Definition Audio Device) Manufacturer: Model UID: Digital Audio (S/PDIF) (High Definition Audio Device) UID: \?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{c4b37529-7c89-4e4e-98fd-6c54d6635920}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}

UPnP devices found : 0

You need to select your iFI device before posting the debug info. Can you do this and post it again?

I’m not actually using an iFi device when I’m using my desktop computer. The DAC (in WASAPI mode) is what’s known as “Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)” so it’s part of the built-in sound section of the computer motherboard (an ASUS quad-core I5).
It’s quite possible that the sound section of the motherboard may have issues with DSD playback. Looking at the specifications for the DAC in Audirvana, I’ve noticed that the supported DSD rate is apparently only DSD64 and that remains unchanged no matter which of the two DSD over PCM (DOP) options I choose (1.0 or 1.1) in the list. However, I’ve also noticed another issue that is almost bizarre. Some time ago, I bought a DSD64 album from HIRESAUDIO in Germany and when I attempt to play that, I cannot use either of the DOP options. I have to use the “Convert to PCM” before it will play - and then that displays as 24/44.1 kHz (bottom right). If, on the other hand, either of the DOPs is selected, I hear a very faint, quite high pitched whine when attempting to play that album and 1/44.1 kHz is displayed. In both instances, I see “DSF DSD64 stereo” bottom left, which is obviously correct. It’s all highly confusing. Why Audirvana can play a higher resolution DSD album - apparently as DSD - when it can’t play a lower res one is beyond me.

Can you send a screesnhot where you see this in Audirvana 3.5?

Here is the screenshot you requested.

Have you tried to reinstall your sound driver? What do you see in the Windows sound panel for the capabilities of your speakers?

Thanks for the suggestion, Antoine. I found that I could update the drivers for both the Realtek High Definition Audio and Speakers (High Definition Audio) - initially by letting Windows search outside my system and then employing the relevant drivers on the computer - but ultimately neither has made no difference. I also discovered Intel(R) Display Video (??) while in Device Manager (Under Sound, Video and Game Controllers) and updated its driver too, with the same outcome. I’m not sure about that driver.
I’m still puzzled as to why the two DSD albums I continually try (one DSD64 and the other DSD128) need different settings to play. I would have thought that both would need DSD over PCM to work. The fact that needs to employ PCM seems really strange. As mentioned, I’m informed at bottom left of Audirvana library page that both are definitely DSD stereo albums.

Hello @Johnno,

can you try to play those tracks using the ASIO4ALL driver?

Thanks again, Antoine. I’ve downloaded a slightly earlier version of ASIO4ALL - as recommended on the ASIO4ALL website - and, after installing it, I’ve selected it in Audirvana with very mixed results. Some of the PCM files there can be played while others can’t and the DSD64 file opens correct;y but there is no sound. (That’s true of some of the PCM in the Audirvana library too, but with a number of them I’m informed “Unable to open audio file for playback” and that’s also what happens when I attempt to play the DSD128 album.).
I’ll try downloading the latest version of ASIO4ALL and see if that makes any difference.
Thanks again.

Okay, what is the motherboard you are using? Usually motherboard on board sound card is limited to 24bit/192khz.

When I was using Windows XP, there used to be a way I could go and see all the motherboard specifications: CPU, RAM, other hardware. I’m not sure how to do that in Windows 10. All I can say is that, from the ‘About’ section under ‘Device Specifications’, it’s an ASUS motherboard with a quad core Intel i5 6400 2.7GHz CPU and 8 GB of RAM and, in the main, I’ve been very pleased with it.
Sorry, at present that’s all I can report and I know that’s not what you’ve asked.
If you know how I can see the motherboard specs, please let me know. I’ll check it out with Google.

You can use this software to get all of those informations:

https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

I went away, did some Google searches and have found out all we need to know and I can say without a shadow of doubt that you were absolutely correct in your assessment of the audio specifications. The ASUSTek Z170M-PLUS motherboard contains a Realtek ALC887 7.1 audio codec and the important information is that all the DACs involved support 16/20/24-bit bit rate at 44.1/48/96/192 sampling frequencies. So DSD is not supported,

Where do I go from here? Nowhere, I suspect.

Well, you can always play DSD files as PCM.

Exactly. Furthermore, I now have a large amount of humble pie to contend with. When I mentioned earlier that some of the files couldn’t be played, I had overlooked plugging in a Western Digital Elements external hard drive into one of the computer’s USB ports as that drive holds half the albums I have installed in the Audirvana library. I feel really embarrassed about that and apologies are definitely in order for wasting your time.
I think we’ve solved the problem and the limitation of the ALC887 codec will just have to be tolerated when it comes to DSD.

Can I please ask another question here? I am seriously thinking of upgrading to Audirvana Studio, principally because I like the idea of being able to check if 96kHz sampled files, for example, are really that and not lower frequency upsampled ones. However, when I’m playing files on my main stereo system I have no connection to the internet and intend keeping it that way. Will the Studio version work under such circumstances? Thanks

You can use Studio in offline mode but the HD analyzer will not work in this mode.

Would I be correct in saying that the analyser has been designed to work while in streaming mode and not when one is playing flies stored locally on a hard or solid state drive?
That’s a pity.

Actually it works quite well with your local files