EQ via DLNA/UpNp streamer

Being a proponent of coherent, point-source wavefront propagation in speaker design as it applies to speaker response in a typical listening room… and to piggy-back on the perspectives of room/speaker control DSP, there is another factor that is rarely discussed…

This is the real-world phenomena inherent in non-coherent speaker designs, called “Acoustic Lobing”, where a phase-related lobe of energy is created at 1/4 the wavelength of the distance between the center-point of two speakers on a plane, at the cross-over frequency that serves the transition between the two speakers… This contributes to audible distortion and room response anomalies….
I amazed Floyd Toole when I perceived and pointed-out this distortion in their speaker designs during a double-blind listening session at Harman/JBL (much to his chagrin) where I was center-seated, evaluating speaker sound-quality with the “carrousel”. (When Dr. Toole was senior vice-president of acoustical engineering at Harman International)… He subsequently ordered Sean Olive to improve the cross-over design strategy…

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

1 Like

@Agoldnear, Since the OP has not informed us of his entire kit it is difficult to ascertain if acoustic lobing is an issue with his speakers… Maybe if @Niekmh would be a little bit more forthcoming and we could be a little more helpful… That aside, your name dropping isn’t very helpful… If we knew what speakers the OP has we could look at the stats and maybe find a Klippel measurement and get further into this…

If correctly positioned and DSP corrected, I know that my ML electrostatics don’t have some of these issues… :nerd_face:

1 Like

Thank you very much for your extensive response :pray:t2:

I know all this;) I have some acoustical treatments in my living room, but not that much to absorb the bass unfortunately. It a no-go in our living room.
The placement of my speakers is also a problem. I can’t place them in the ‘perfect’ place unfortunately. So that’s why I have some peaks in the bass response. Is it a problem?? No. It’s not. The dsp would be to create a more theoretical ‘perfect’ response curve.

A wil ago i built my own speakers with the bass problem in mind;) It’s really better then other speakers build by speaker manufacturers I’ve had. (Focal Electra. Martin Logan clarity)

1 Like

Thank you! The Linn is a very good streamer I think. I’ve got the updated power supply as well.
My amp is an AVM Evolution A2 and have build my own speakers a few weeks ago.
A TQWT with a Markaudio Alpair full range driver. Pearl Acoustic Sibelius styl speaker.
It’s a simple and very pure audio set :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes

I will respond to the other reactions later. Thanks in advance :pray:t2:

1 Like

Thought I would add this potential to the mix, as it is relevant in the overall picture due to doppler-effect influence, depending on the room size… I thought the little side-story might be interesting… it brought back fond memories thinking about studio/speaker design and application. I only started thinking about these things under the premise of ‘simplicity’ as there is much we can apply in the physical realm to manage resonances in the 100Hz range with little expense and complementary aesthetics and a little creativity, because the room is a constant… the playback system + speaker source may change however.
Your back-wave energy is what you must manage. :nerd_face:

Well… it’s like chasing ghosts… I prefer creating a level of broadband chaos, sort of like dither, when it comes to room correction.

:nerd_face: I’ve taken this off-topic… My apologies…

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

1 Like

I know these kind of topics can this kind of topic can become quite large and cluttered, so I limited myself to two simple questions.

I know about acoustics, I know about speaker placement, I know about room-modes etc. My room and placement are far from ideal, but it’s the only way I can listen here.
I have a relatively normal size room but my speakers are a bit in the corners, so I have to deal with some ‘corner loading’ and my seat is relatively close to the back wall. Far from ideal;)

And yes, I created my own speaker a while ago. A TQWT with a MarkAudio Alpair 10.3 full range driver with the bass-output in mind.
It sounds really great in my opinion. Better then very good speakers I’ve had here. So that’s a big plus!

My idea was ‘maybe great software on a powerful server can make some audible improvements? And maybe I can smoothen out some imperfections. But that’s only to pursue more theoretical perfection.
I’ve done many measurements and dsp alterations with REW and implemented this in Roon. Downside to this (besides the high costs of Roon) is,… you keep adjusting the curve. That’s something I don’t want to do anymore. That’s why I want to keep things simple :wink:.

But I greatly appreciate the interest and time people put into my question! :pray:t2:

2 Likes

Don’t think @Ddude003 was referring to you mate.

1 Like

[quote=“Ironz, post:48, topic:43909”]
Don’t think @Ddude003 was referring to you mate
[/quote]Ohw? My apologies.

I deleted that part of my comment :+1:t2:

2 Likes

I ran Audirvana before Roon was available… Then ran Audirvana and Roon for about a year in a side by side comparison… Then ditched Roon because I thought Audirvana sounded much better and allowed me to pick the convolver and EQ plugins of my choice…

And I never looked back… Good luck in finding your Audio Nirvana…

1 Like

Thank you. For now I’m in a kind of ‘Audio Nirnava’ with my new speakers;). Very happy with them.

What you say about Roon is a bit what I expect to happen. It all becomes way more easy when AudirVana accepts REW plug-ins:)

I guess that should be… Audirvana accepts VST plugins which can include Convolvers which use FIR filters designed with tools like REW…

1 Like

Thanks! I didn’t have much time, but I’ll go look at it :+1:t2:
Maybe AudirVana can be interesting when I can do some minor Eq adjustments with REW.
Maybe the overall sound quality can benefit from AudirVana as well

I’ve got AudirVana running now, but there’s a but. I don’t have any DSP implementation and I hear a small difference in sound quality. To the detriment of AudirVana.

So, I don’t know what’s going on here? The dac-settings are good but otherwise I have no idea how this can be.

Please paste your debug information report here so we can get more insight into your assertion “To the detriment of…” and possibly provide you with more insights regarding Audirvāna playback in the context of your system configuration, that may play into this assertion…
The report is found here:
Settings → My Account → Help → Debug info

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

1 Like

@Agoldnear Hope this helps?

Audirvana Studio 2.9.6 (20907)

macOS Version 15.3 (Build 24D60) ARM64 with 8GB physical RAM

Connected account of : Nick van Kreij

NETWORK
Status: available
Local network access: allowed

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins ACTIVE in offline mode with new macOS API
	No plugin active

UPSAMPLING:
r8brain with device max frequency upsampling
r8brain filter parameters
Bandwidth = 99.5%
Stop band attenuation 218dB
Phase linear

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Volumes/SSD 2T/AudirVana
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Sort and display order: en
Library database path: /Users/niekmistratehaarhuis/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Local audio files fingerprinting
Tracks with no MBID: 5

Remote Control server:
Listening on on port 54680

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
Qobuz: Connected as Qobuz Studio

APPEARANCE SETTINGS:
UI theme: dark
Font size: regular
Language: System language
Show album covers in tracks list: yes
Source list sorted:
My Music
Radios
Podcasts
Streaming
Local
Startup view: My Music: Albums
Show local extended in source list: no
Use media keys: yes
Use media keys for volume control: yes
Use Apple Remote: yes
Number of paired remotes: 1
Remote pairing code required: yes
Screen saver disabled: no

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: UPnP

UPnP network interface
Available Network interfaces:
Ethernet
Wi-Fi

Preferred device: [UPnP] Linn Woonkamer:UPnP AV Model UID:Linn Products Ltd Majik DS UID:uuid:4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171

Selected device:Linn Woonkamer:UPnP AV
Manufacturer: Linn Products Ltd
Model name: Majik DS
Model UID: Linn Products Ltd Majik DS
UID: uuid:4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171
UPnP device at http://192.168.2.9:55178/4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/device.xml
ID 0x0

6 available sample rates up to 192000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000

Volume control: Yes
Max volume alert: Enabled

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not automatically detected, user set to not MQA

DSD capability
Unhandled (PCM conversion) with boost gain of 6dB

Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

UPnP set capabilities
Maximum PCM frequency set: 192000Hz
Maximum PCM bitdepth set: 24
Not native DSD capable
Avoid RAW PCM streams: No
Unwanted playback stop workaround: No

UPnP / DLNA supported protocols :
http-get::audio/mp4:
http-get::application/vnd.apple.mpegurl:
http-get::audio/aac:
http-get::audio/aacp:
http-get::audio/aiff:
http-get::audio/x-aiff:
http-get::audio/aifc:
http-get::audio/x-aifc:
http-get::audio/x-m4a:
http-get::audio/x-flac:
http-get::audio/ogg:
http-get::audio/x-ogg:
http-get::application/ogg:
http-get::audio/wav:
http-get::audio/wave:
http-get::audio/x-wav:
http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:
http-get::audio/x-ms-asf:
http-get::audio/x-ms-wax:
http-get::audio/x-ms-wvx:
http-get::video/x-ms-asf:
http-get::video/x-ms-wax:
http-get::video/x-ms-wvx:
http-get::audio/mpeg:
http-get::audio/x-mpeg:
http-get::audio/mp1:
http-get::audio/x-mpegurl:
http-get::audio/mpegurl:
http-get::audio/x-scpls:
http-get::text/xml:
tidalhifi.com:::*
qobuz.com:::*
DLNA 1.5: No
Native Gapless playback: No
Universal Gapless playback active: No
Missing events workaround: No
Can play native DSD: No
Volume Control: dB (-80dB to 20dB)
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x0 0 channels starting at 0
12 virtual formats:
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz finite length

0 physical formats

Current device transportInfo:
CurrentTransportState: NO_MEDIA_PRESENT
CurrentTransportStatus: OK
CurrentSpeed: 1

Current device MediaInfo:
NrTracks: 0
MediaDuration: 0:00:00
CurrentURI:
CurrentURIMetadata:
nextURI: NOT_IMPLEMENTED
nextURIMetadata: NOT_IMPLEMENTED
PlayMedium: NONE
RecordMedium: NOT_IMPLEMENTED
WriteStatus: NOT_IMPLEMENTED

Current transport actions:

Current device AVT service description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1 Linn Woonkamer:UPnP AV Linn Products Ltd Majik DS uuid:4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171 image/png 120 50 32 http://192.168.2.9:55178/4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-01172618013f/Upnp/resource/res/icons/Device.png urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/event urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:ConnectionManager /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/event urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/event

Current device RootDevice description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1 Linn Woonkamer:UPnP AV Linn Products Ltd Majik DS uuid:4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171 image/png 120 50 32 http://192.168.2.9:55178/4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-01172618013f/Upnp/resource/res/icons/Device.png urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-AVTransport-1/event urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:ConnectionManager /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-ConnectionManager-1/event urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/service.xml /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/control /4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/upnp.org-RenderingControl-1/event

UPnP devices found : 2
Device #0: ID 0x0 : Linn Woonkamer:UPnP AV
UID: uuid:4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171
Location: http://192.168.2.9:55178/4c494e4e-0050-c221-7969-011726180171/Upnp/device.xml
Manufacturer: Linn Products Ltd
Model name: Majik DS
Device #1: ID 0x0 : SONY KD-65XG8505
UID: uuid:23456789-1234-1010-8000-CC988BAA1312
Location: http://192.168.2.6:52323/MediaRenderer.xml
Manufacturer: Sony Corporation
Model name: MediaRenderer

Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 5120MB

Local Audio Engine: CoreAudio
Actual I/O buffer frame size: 0

Local devices found : 3
Device #0: ID 0xba SONY TV *00
Manufacturer: SNY
Model UID: 4DD90537-0000-0000-011D-010380905178
UID: 4DD90537-0000-0000-011D-010380905178
Model name: SNY SONY TV *00
Device #1: ID 0x4e Externe koptelefoon
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Model UID: Codec Output
UID: BuiltInHeadphoneOutputDevice
Model name: Apple Inc. Externe koptelefoon
Device #2: ID 0x48 Mac mini luidsprekers
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Model UID: Speaker
UID: BuiltInSpeakerDevice
Model name: Apple Inc. Mac mini luidsprekers

I use a Mac Mini m2 as a server. I do not do other things with/on my Mac.

Some suggestions…
Note the bold text

I suggest that you use ‘Power of Two’ up-sampling strategy, as this will produce the correct logical sample-rate result and will up-sample to the maximum supported logical sample-rate capabilities of the DAC as configured.
Example:
16/44.1kHz → 24/176.4kHz
16/48kHz → 24/192kHz

Also, you may need to tweak the r8Brain filter parameters to produce a suitable quality of sound-output that fits your aesthetic. For more information on what these parameters do can be found in the online ‘Help Manual’ found in the up-sampling pop-up window… the little (i) in the upper right of the window… You will be best served to study a bit on filter design and application and what a filter ‘Stop band’ is and what are the ramifications of the attenuation function… I suggest that you take some time and try reducing the ‘Stop band attenuation’ in very small increments to get a feel for the influence on the sound-character you are auditioning and finding a setting that works for your particular playback system.

If you have a volume control on your Linn box, use it and disable the software volume control(s) in Audirvāna.

An 8GB system is the required minimum… You are using more than 50% (5.1GB) of your System RAM for playback pre-load memory allocation… I suggest that you lower your pre-load memory allocation to 2GB … More System RAM is better…

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

3 Likes

I agree with all of the suggestions @Agoldnear provides above…

Additionally, you might consider that you have been using Roon with some DSP and/or EQ and you are now trying Audirvana with no DSP and/or EQ…

If you have FIR filters you used for Roon you might consider using something like the Hang Loose Convolver plugin and apply those same FIR filters… There is a 14 day free trial…

BTY… The Hang Loose Convolver uses the same r8brain up sampler tech which Mitch shows examples of settings with a graph ( Hang Loose Convolver (HLC) - Accurate Sound ) which might help with understanding the filters parameters which @Agoldnear is suggesting you should study… :nerd_face:

1 Like

I will respond later to the other reactions. Thanks in advance for that!

I’ve got two other question. 1: I thought i could implement a REW filter into AudirVana, but I don’t see the option here. I read that this should automatically become visible here.
I’m doing something wrong I think,… but what?
2: It won’t play tracks in a playlist sequentially. It stops after one track. Then I have to klik on the next track, after that track is done it stops. Ect ect.
(Yes, AutoPlay from the last track is ‘On’)
What’s going on here?