Heart attack inducing blue noise

Ok, I managed to get the trouser-soiling noise to happen again (as mentioned in my previous post). It seems to occur at random, and seems to be correlated with skipping into a track, but not always ie. I cannot reproduce this by simply skipping forwards. It happens at random (which actually makes it a lot worse). I would consider the noise to be blue-noise like as it seems to have an upward slope as frequency increases (as per my RME ADI-2 display).

This is a pretty serious bug in any music player software - I would imagine that you want a user to trust that the sound that is being sent to their system is pleasant and not literally petrifying. My dogs literally ran out of the room the first time this happened.

Hopefully there is a setting I can use to fix this?


Debug info:

Audirvana Studio 2.6.6 (20606)

macOS Version 13.0 (Build 22A380) with 8GB physical RAM

Connected account of : Jacques Booyens

NETWORK
Status: available

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins ACTIVE in offline mode with legacy macOS API
	AU plugin #0: Music Effect - MeldaProduction MConvolutionEZ ()
	AU plugin #1: None
	AU plugin #2: None
	AU plugin #3: None

UPSAMPLING:
r8brain not in use
r8brain filter parameters
Bandwidth = 99.5%
Stop band attenuation 218dB
Phase linear

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: ON

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Users/jacquesbooyens/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs/Music/Collection
iTunes/Music library synchronization: last synchronized on Fri Feb 2 17:40:01 2024

Library database path: /Users/jacquesbooyens/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Local audio files fingerprinting
Tracks with no MBID: 448

Remote Control server:
Listening on 127.0.0.1 on port 65351

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HiFi Plus

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: UPnP

Preferred device: [UPnP] Living Room Model UID:Linkplay Technology Inc. WiiM Pro-4E82 UID:uuid:FF98F09C-C6DB-EC21-B9CD-01F2FF98F09C

Currently playing to UPnP device at 24 bits 88.2kHz
Selected device:Living Room
Manufacturer: Linkplay Technology Inc.
Model name: WiiM Pro-4E82
Model UID: Linkplay Technology Inc. WiiM Pro-4E82
UID: uuid:FF98F09C-C6DB-EC21-B9CD-01F2FF98F09C
UPnP device at http://192.168.3.14:49152/description.xml
ID 0x0

6 available sample rates up to 192000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000

Volume control: Yes
Max volume alert: Disabled

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA

DSD capability
Unhandled (PCM conversion) with boost gain of 0dB

Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

UPnP set capabilities
Maximum PCM frequency set: 192000Hz
Maximum PCM bitdepth set: 24
Not native DSD capable
Avoid RAW PCM streams: Yes
Unwanted playback stop workaround: No

UPnP / DLNA supported protocols :
http-get::audio/wav:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:
:audio/x-wav:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get::audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:
:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3X
http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get:
:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get::audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAPRO
http-get:
:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP2_MPS
http-get::audio/mp3:
http-get::audio/wma:
http-get::audio/mpeg:
http-get::audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS
http-get:
:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_320
http-get::audio/m4a:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get:
:audio/aac:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get::audio/ac3:DLNA.ORG_PN=AC3
http-get:
:audio/ogg:*
http-get::audio/ape:
http-get::audio/x-ape:
http-get::audio/flac:
DLNA 1.5: Yes
Native Gapless playback: Yes
Universal Gapless playback active: No
Missing events workaround: Yes
Can play native DSD: No
Volume Control: scalar
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x0 0 channels starting at 0
12 virtual formats:
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz finite length
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz finite length

0 physical formats

Current device transportInfo:
CurrentTransportState: PLAYING
CurrentTransportStatus: OK
CurrentSpeed: 1

Current device MediaInfo:
NrTracks: 1
MediaDuration: 00:02:55
CurrentURI: http://192.168.3.53:49152/audirvana/audio_f_50.wav
CurrentURIMetadata: <?xml version="1.0"?>


dc:titleMy Mind At Ease</dc:title>
dc:creatorDominique Fils-Aimé</dc:creator>
upnp:artistDominique Fils-Aimé</upnp:artist>
upnp:genre</upnp:genre>
upnp:albumArtURIhttp://resources.tidal.com/images/fe9b5e0f/8cd1/4677/a9fe/8a034929371a/640x640.jpg</upnp:albumArtURI>
upnp:albumOur Roots Run Deep</upnp:album>
upnp:originalTrackNumber12</upnp:originalTrackNumber>
upnp:classobject.item.audioItem.musicTrack</upnp:class>
http://192.168.3.53:49152/audirvana/audio_f_50.wav
song:rate_hz88200</song:rate_hz>
song:format_s24</song:format_s>
song:bitrate4233</song:bitrate>

nextURI: http://192.168.3.53:49152/audirvana/audio_f_51.wav
nextURIMetadata: <DIDL-Lite xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:upnp="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/upnp/" xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:metadata-1-0/DIDL-Lite/" xmlns:dlna="urn:schemas-dlna-org:metadata-1-0/">
Feeling Like A Plant Dominique Fils-Aimé Dominique Fils-Aimé http://resources.tidal.com/images/fe9b5e0f/8cd1/4677/a9fe/8a034929371a/640x640.jpg Our Roots Run Deep 13 object.item.audioItem.musicTrack http://192.168.3.53:49152/audirvana/audio_f_51.wav
PlayMedium: THIRD-DLNA
RecordMedium: NOT_IMPLEMENTED
WriteStatus: NOT_IMPLEMENTED

Current transport actions:
Stop,Seek,X_DLNA_SeekTime,Pause

Current device AVT service description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 DMR-1.50 urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1 Living Room Linkplay Technology Inc. https://wiimhome.com WiiM Pro Receiver WiiM Pro Receiver https://wiimhome.com uuid:FF98F09C-C6DB-EC21-B9CD-01F2FF98F09C V01-Jan 25 2024 00001 WiiM Pro-4E82 FF98F09CC6DBEC21B9CD01F2 QPlay:2 image/png 48 48 24 /upnp/grender-48x48.png image/png 120 120 24 /upnp/grender-120x120.png image/jpeg 48 48 24 /upnp/grender-48x48.jpg image/jpeg 120 120 24 /upnp/grender-120x120.jpg urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport /upnp/rendertransportSCPD.xml /upnp/control/rendertransport1 /upnp/event/rendertransport1 urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:ConnectionManager /upnp/renderconnmgrSCPD.xml /upnp/control/renderconnmgr1 /upnp/event/renderconnmgr1 urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl /upnp/rendercontrolSCPD.xml /upnp/control/rendercontrol1 /upnp/event/rendercontrol1 urn:schemas-wiimu-com:service:PlayQueue:1 urn:wiimu-com:serviceId:PlayQueue /upnp/PlayQueueSCPD.xml /upnp/control/PlayQueue1 /upnp/event/PlayQueue1 urn:schemas-tencent-com:service:QPlay:1 urn:tencent-com:serviceId:QPlay /upnp/QPlaySCPD.xml /upnp/control/QPlay1 /upnp/event/QPlay1

Current device RootDevice description:

<?xml version="1.0"?> 1 0 DMR-1.50 urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1 Living Room Linkplay Technology Inc. https://wiimhome.com WiiM Pro Receiver WiiM Pro Receiver https://wiimhome.com uuid:FF98F09C-C6DB-EC21-B9CD-01F2FF98F09C V01-Jan 25 2024 00001 WiiM Pro-4E82 FF98F09CC6DBEC21B9CD01F2 QPlay:2 image/png 48 48 24 /upnp/grender-48x48.png image/png 120 120 24 /upnp/grender-120x120.png image/jpeg 48 48 24 /upnp/grender-48x48.jpg image/jpeg 120 120 24 /upnp/grender-120x120.jpg urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport /upnp/rendertransportSCPD.xml /upnp/control/rendertransport1 /upnp/event/rendertransport1 urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:ConnectionManager /upnp/renderconnmgrSCPD.xml /upnp/control/renderconnmgr1 /upnp/event/renderconnmgr1 urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1 urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl /upnp/rendercontrolSCPD.xml /upnp/control/rendercontrol1 /upnp/event/rendercontrol1 urn:schemas-wiimu-com:service:PlayQueue:1 urn:wiimu-com:serviceId:PlayQueue /upnp/PlayQueueSCPD.xml /upnp/control/PlayQueue1 /upnp/event/PlayQueue1 urn:schemas-tencent-com:service:QPlay:1 urn:tencent-com:serviceId:QPlay /upnp/QPlaySCPD.xml /upnp/control/QPlay1 /upnp/event/QPlay1

UPnP devices found : 1
Device #0: ID 0x0 : Living Room
UID: uuid:FF98F09C-C6DB-EC21-B9CD-01F2FF98F09C
Location: http://192.168.3.14:49152/description.xml
Manufacturer: Linkplay Technology Inc.
Model name: WiiM Pro-4E82

Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 3978MB

Local Audio Engine: CoreAudio
Actual I/O buffer frame size: 0

Local devices found : 3
Device #0: ID 0x92 BlackHole 2ch
Manufacturer: Existential Audio Inc.
Model UID: BlackHole2ch_ModelUID
UID: BlackHole2ch_UID
Model name: Existential Audio Inc. BlackHole 2ch
Device #1: ID 0x47 MacBook Air Speakers
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Model UID: Speaker
UID: BuiltInSpeakerDevice
Model name: Apple Inc. MacBook Air Speakers
Device #2: ID 0x89 ZoomAudioDevice
Manufacturer: zoom.us
Model UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice
UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001
Model name: zoom.us ZoomAudioDevice

Chromecast

Chromecast devices found : 1
Device #0: Living Room
ID: 603244eae4728bf202dca9ce90bc81ea
Model name: WiiM Pro Receiver

Reproduced the issue by randomly skipping through the track. Here is an image of the display on the ADI-2…

As an Audirvana user for the last two years, I have been experiencing the same noise quite often since I first started using AS, mostly when I skip tracks on Qobuz, but rarely spontaneously for no reason. The noise can only be eliminated by pressing the padlock symbol (exclusive audio access mode).

1 Like

I suggest that you simplify your system to a basic local system with the WiiM Pro + DAC connected directly to the computer and if playback is as expected, work from there…

This playback scenario would be:

  • Connect a Library storage device directly to the Mac…

  • Large CoreAudio I/O buffer: Enabled

  • BlackHole removed

  • No AU Plug-in enabled

  • Volume control: No

  • Auto-detect MQA devices: No

  • Unwanted playback stop workaround: Yes

  • Universal Gapless playback active: Yes

  • Use as stereo device only: Yes

  • Max. memory for audio buffers: 1GB

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

I think this would be the only explanation/solution. Seems related to streaming if you experienced it on Qobuz.

How can you be sure?

Blue Noise is in the energy spectrum of Dither

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

I have experienced this kind of very loud noise burst and was advised to reduce the Max memory for audio buffers. This is on Mac OS - pre Sonoma & on Sonoma using Qobuz. It certainly helped it but it still can happen - seems to be more likely when on higher sample rates but also on 44.1 but less common.

Its a major problem because when it happens it really is Heart Attack Inducing as JB92 suggested. Its very concerning as its totally unpredictable. I hope by raising this here, it will trigger some more generic investigation into the problem. Its very infrequent so I expect this will be difficult to find.

1 Like

What is being described is a +3 dB/octave noise with increasing frequency, as shown by the screen shot from the RME DAC, that correlates with what is commonly termed “Blue Noise”… Blue Noise has no concentration of transient spikes, out to infinity… “White Noise” is randomized with equal intensity at different frequencies, containing a constant power spectral density most commonly observed with the loss of synchronization of sample-rate in digital-audio and zero crossing and clipping distortion transients in digital audio.

Dither is Blue Noise.

This could be related to DRM watermarking :thinking:

100%… we are not exaggerating. It’s a weird position to pride itself on having the app with the best sound quality, but then randomly erupting into noise that would drive fear into Satan himself.

1 Like

Your experience seems to be a very corner-case scenario… Have you simplified your system configuration to get a reliable baseline playback/operational reference?

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

1 Like

This is a good approach to solving these kinds of problems… Reminds me of Niklaus Wirth’s 1971 step wise refinement… And Alan Kay’s simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible… :sunglasses:

My case is very straightforward - direct USB from MAC to DAC!

This Debug report shows otherwise… You are using UPnP to the WiiM box… and you have BlackHole active… follow my suggestions in my previous post and get a baseline reference playback configuration with your DAC connected direct to the computer via USB.

:notes: :eye: :headphones: :eye: :notes:

Hi @JB92,

Have you tried this suggestion from @Agoldnear ? :point_up_2:

Hey @Agoldnear and @Antoine, I have experienced this problem.

I’ll give it a few tests to try replicate this issue tommorw (1. with blackhole + upnp, without blackhole + upnp and the same but direct to USB) and will report back. I haven’t experienced this problem at all since posting but haven’t skipped into tracks more than 3 or 4 times

@Agoldnear I think you were responding to @etc with my debug report.