MQA decoding and rendering differ from Roon using the same hardware

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 7:22pm

I have a MacBook M1 Pro, with maxed out specs (64GB RAM, 8TB hard drive and the top M1 processor). I have downloaded the latest version of Audirvana for Mac OS, and connected it to my TIDAL account. The DAC I’m using is the Cambridge DACMagic 200, connected to my laptop via a USB cable.

I like the Audirvana application options and interface much more than I like the ones from Roon, and simply want to make the switch. However I am facing an “interesting challenge”. When playing the same song from TIDAL, I get a different decoding from Roon than I get from Audirvana.

According to my DAC manual: “…When the DacMagic 200M is receiving an incoming digital stream, the relevant LED will light up to indicate the incoming digital sampling frequency. For MQA the LED will light up green for MQA, or blue for MQA Studio. If the LED is magenta, then the unit is rendering an MQA stream or file, completing the processing, and allowing playback at the highest possible audio quality…”

When I play MQA Studio files out of Tidal, using Audirvana, the led lights up in blue. However when playing the same song from Roon, the led lights up magenta, which according to the statement above means the playback is happening at the highest quality.

I suspect this is a matter of settings in the Audirvana app, but for the life of me I can’t find which one to change to get the same MQA stream rendering as I get from Roon. Below are the links to a couple of screenshots, showing the song played from both apps. Any help to solve this would be highly appreciated.

Roon playback: Sync.com | Control Panel

Audirvana playback: Sync.com | Control Panel

RunHomeSlow · January 30, 2023, 7:29pm

maybe here in the preferences panel ? my DAC is not MQA

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 7:34pm

I think you’re on right track, Audirvāna is doing the first unfold I’m thinking. OP wants to send all the unfolding to be done in the DAC , with such a powerful computer letting Audirvāna do the work wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. But checking it out in different ways will be fun.

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 7:40pm

Here what my settings look like. I can’t find anything else to change

RunHomeSlow · January 30, 2023, 7:52pm

if you remove auto detect can you choose other options?

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 7:52pm

Take a look where @RunHomeSlow showed, DAC input settings

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 7:54pm

Nothing happens (visually) when I toggle that option off and on. No other options show

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 7:57pm

DAC input settings on my MacBook

You show as MQA decoder on output device, now change in DAC input to MQA decoder and I think that should do it.

RunHomeSlow · January 30, 2023, 8:09pm

If you put exclusive access ON ?

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 8:12pm

Few things I might have forgotten one, no Audio Units? Volume must be 100% to DAC I know that’s an important thing. I haven’t had Tidal in a while, only a couple MQA on Qobuz for testing.

My pro-ject DAC has only green and blue, and I get blue with the settings I posted.

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 8:21pm

The options I see under DAC input are exactly the same I see when I click on the output device, and that option of selecting MQA Decoder does not show.

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 8:24pm

Probably your computer isn’t powerful enough

How about a full shutdown of everything and reboot, if your DAC is capable then the settings should be there. Post your debug so that we can see a bit more information on your system and settings.

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 8:24pm

Where do I find the debug file?

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 8:26pm

Top left menu bar, Audirvāna Studio, First choice it will automatically copy so just paste into your next post.

I’m running MacBook Pro M1 16 gb 1tb works fine.

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 8:28pm

Ok. Will restart now. A couple of additional screenshots, comparing the same track. Audirvāna Studio keep lighting up in blue on the DAC led, while Roon lights up magenta

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 8:36pm

Audirvana Studio 2.2.3 (20203)

macOS Version 13.2 (Build 22D49) with 64GB physical RAM

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
r8brain to DSD256 with filter type B 7th order
r8brain filter parameters
Bandwidth = 99.5%
Stop band attenuation 218dB
Phase linear

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: by track
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Volumes/Music/FLAC
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/morpheus/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Remote Control server:
Listening on 127.0.0.1 on port 49906

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

Active method: Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 64512MB

Local Audio Engine: CoreAudio
Exclusive access: ON
Integer mode: ON
Use max I/O buffer size: ON
Actual I/O buffer frame size: 512

Preferred device:
CA CA DacMagic 200M 2.0
Model UID:CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:22E8:DAC2
UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:CA:CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:1100000:1

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz
Hog Mode is off

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:CA DacMagic 200M 2.0
Manufacturer: CA
Model name: CA DacMagic 200M 2.0
Model UID: CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:22E8:DAC2
UID: AppleUSBAudioEngine:CA:CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:1100000:1
USB Vendor ID: 0x22e8
USB Product ID: 0xdac2
ID 0x33

10 available sample rates up to 768000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000
352800
384000
705600
768000
Audio buffer frame size : 29 to 4096 frames
Current I/O buffer frame size : 512

Volume Control
Physical: No
Virtual: No

MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: Yes
MQA Decoder device
DSD capability: DSD via PCM 1.1

Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: Yes

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x34 2 channels starting at 1
30 virtual formats:
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz

40 physical formats
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 24 little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 32bit 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz

Local devices found : 7
Device #0: ID 0x94 BenQ SW271
Manufacturer: BNQ
Model UID: 09D15F7F-0000-0000-211C-0104B53C2278
UID: 09D15F7F-0000-0000-211C-0104B53C2278
Model name: BNQ BenQ SW271
Device #1: ID 0x85 BenQ SW271
Manufacturer: BNQ
Model UID: 09D15F7F-0000-0000-211C-0104B53C2278_00000002
UID: 09D15F7F-0000-0000-211C-0104B53C2278_00000002
Model name: BNQ BenQ SW271
Device #2: ID 0x33 CA DacMagic 200M 2.0
Manufacturer: CA
Model UID: CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:22E8:DAC2
UID: AppleUSBAudioEngine:CA:CA DacMagic 200M 2.0:1100000:1
USB Vendor ID: 0x22e8
USB Product ID: 0xdac2
Model name: CA DacMagic 200M 2.0
Device #3: ID 0x77 CalDigit TS4 Audio - Rear
Manufacturer: CalDigit,Inc.
Model UID: CalDigit TS4 Audio - Rear:2188:6536
UID: AppleUSBAudioEngine:CalDigit,Inc.:CalDigit TS4 Audio - Rear:111400:1
USB Vendor ID: 0x2188
USB Product ID: 0x6536
Model name: CalDigit,Inc. CalDigit TS4 Audio - Rear
Device #4: ID 0x67 MacBook Pro Speakers
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Model UID: Speaker
UID: BuiltInSpeakerDevice
Model name: Apple Inc. MacBook Pro Speakers
Device #5: ID 0x3b krisp speaker
Manufacturer: Krisp
Model UID: KrispAudioDeviceSpeakerModelUID
UID: KrispAudioDeviceSpeaker
Model name: Krisp krisp speaker
Device #6: ID 0x43 Microsoft Teams Audio
Manufacturer: Microsoft Corp.
Model UID: MSLoopbackDriverDevice_ModelUID
UID: MSLoopbackDriverDevice_UID
Model name: Microsoft Corp. Microsoft Teams Audio

UPnP

UPnP devices found : 0

Chromecast

Chromecast devices found : 1
Device #0: Kitchen Display
ID: ff82500fa4d23eca5f67c0ca2c3b2bcd
Model name: Google Nest Hub

RunHomeSlow · January 30, 2023, 8:41pm

upsampling is on… you can’t with MQA i’m pretty sure…

and lower the memory buffer at 50000 if you want but leave some for the Mac

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 8:46pm

Maybe a new record

Yes Disable upsampling, that’s what shuts mine down here but the control still shows and is selectable……odd

siebzehnx · January 30, 2023, 8:51pm

Disabled upsampling and lowered the buffers to 45000. LED is still blue in the DAC panel

OffRode · January 30, 2023, 8:54pm

Let @Antoine look it over in the morning Paris time and I’ll bet he can explain it better.

Magenta