NativeDSD is coming out with recordings that are mixed in DSD, never leaving the DSD domain, starting September 5th. Article here:
NativeDSD has been selling the Octave Records products for about a year nowā¦ This includes Octave Records 11.2MHz Pyramix recordings/productions. They are building a stable of artists and making the studio available to all that wish to record there.
https://www.octavedsdstudio.com/record
I downloaded the DSD256 files and want to listen to them calmly.
Thanks for the information.
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Mixing in Pure DSD is done by HQPlayer Pro, Pyramix recordings are mixed in DXD.
Not necessarilyā¦ A DSD256 recording done in Pyramix can stay completely in the PDM format, if no special editing is needed in the production of the recording.
I think we need to really clarify what a āPure DSDā recording actually meansā¦ A āpureā DSD256 recording could be mixed, equalized, panned, compressed, etc, etc, in the analog domain and that mix subsequently recorded at 11.2MHz for mastering and distributionā¦ We must remember there are microphones involved in any acoustic recordingā¦ so the notion of āPure DSDā is a fantasyā¦ If the recording is done with a single stereo microphone, there is nothing to mixā¦ the imaging is codified in the placement of the microphone in relationship to the instrumentalistsā¦ A multi-microphone recording uses a mixer and binaural recordings are codified by the HRTF microphone array or dummy head.
The recordings @Jud mentioned are recorded in pure DSD and mixed in DSD.
They are mostly made with multiple mics. There is no conversion from DSD to analog for mixing and back to DSD involved. Currently this can only be done with HQPlayer Pro.
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This is not trueā¦ Pyramix can perform splitting and joining songs, fade processing, volume adjustments, L/R balance adjustments, normalization, cutting DC components, editing marks in the PDM domainā¦ This can also be done in Korgās AudioGate software DSD player/editor but limited to lower PDM sample-rates
Please provide a link.
Please show me in this 280 pages manual the exact passage that my assertions are not true.
Thanks
Editing ā¦ starts at page 145.
In context to the article regarding how panning is done in Pyramix:
(Page 182)
Panning Control Buses
Panning is achieved using Panning Control Buses. These are purely control buses, they donāt process any audio and have no channels, no associated Output Strip and no I/O. Instead of having a separate panner on each Input Strip Bus Send there is one or more Panning Control Buses. Input Strip Bus Sends are assigned to Panning Control Buses or routed direct using a Channel Router matrix. One Panner can control several Bus sends in different formats.
E.g. when Mono, Stereo, Surround and 7.1.4 Buses are present. Equally, if it is desired to pan differently to different Buses, this can be achieved by adding more Panning Control Buses. The Panning Control Bus user interface in each Input Strip can be switched to one of three different panner types or a direct Channel Router Matrix. Left-click on the Bus Send Pan 1 etc. label to open the Routing context menu with the choice of:
Channel Router
Panner 1
Panner 2
Panner 3
So there is no reason that PDM tracks cannot be sent to different Panning Control Buses similar to the HQPlayer stereo L/R scenarioā¦
Didnāt find any info that I am not right.
Please copy and past.
This is from AI:
"DSD256, a high-resolution audio format, can be mixed within the Pyramix digital audio workstation (DAW) by converting it to DXD, a high-resolution PCM format, for processing. Pyramix is capable of handling DSD256 and DXD for pristine audio quality. The āMix Pyramidā refers to a mixing technique where different elements of the mix are built up in layers, starting with the foundational elements and progressively adding details. This approach helps achieve a clear and balanced mix, ensuring each element is audible and properly placed within the overall sound.
Hereās a more detailed explanation:
DSD256 and Pyramix:
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DSD256: is a very high-resolution audio format with a sampling rate of 11.2 MHz, 256 times the resolution of standard audio CDs, offering enhanced detail and clarity.
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Pyramix: is a DAW known for its support of high sample rates, including DSD256 and DXD.
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While Pyramix can handle DSD256 natively, mixing in DSD directly can be challenging due to its one-bit nature.
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Therefore, DSD256 audio is often converted to DXD (a high-resolution PCM format) for mixing and processing within Pyramix.
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This conversion allows for more flexible editing and processing, while still maintaining the high-resolution quality of the original DSD256.
The Mix Pyramid:
- The Mix Pyramid is a mixing strategy, not a technical feature of a DAW.
- It involves building a mix in layers, starting with the foundational elements like the bass and drums, and then adding other instruments and vocals on top, ensuring each element is clearly heard and placed appropriately.
- This approach helps create a balanced and cohesive mix where all elements contribute to the overall sound without masking each other.
In summary: DSD256 mixing within Pyramix is commonly done by converting to DXD, and the Mix Pyramid is a technique used to build a balanced and clear mix by layering different elements in a strategic way."
Yes for more extensive DSP, conversion to DXD is necessaryā¦ However, if the recording is a simple stereo recording or multi-track recorded and mixed in the Classical approach, through a multi-channel analog mixer into a PDM capable A/D interface or interfaces, then everything is codified in the recording where only the basic file editing is required to produce the masterā¦
You can also read these forum contributions:
I admit that from a SQ POV the differences between mixing in pure DSD and DXD are very small.
From my perspective, we are really only talking about modern recordings that are esoteric in natureā¦ However, from my perspective, DSD256 archival transfers of analog-tape master recordings is where the magic isā¦ Modern analog-tape can easily produce DSD256 level detailā¦ The 2xHD DSD products are impeccable.
Without any comparitve reference, these āPure DSDā files will have to really bring something special to the table, otherwise it is just another DSD product.
Donāt forget HDTT:
Rare Classical and Jazz music in Audiophile Sound ā High Definition Tape Transfers
Tom Caulfield, the Grammy winning producer, seems to think these recordings are something special, and as the article I linked notes, he had a comparative reference, mixing done in the usual way via Pyramix. But you can certainly decide for yourself by listening to the free downloads. Or donāt if you donāt care to, but I think itās nice both that this choice is available to anyone who wants it and that the technology is progressing.
ā¦ Native DSD256 recordings are the digital benchmark standardā¦ My feeling that all native DSD256 have a quality of sound that is appreciably satisfying as compared to DXD recordings when auditioned on a DSD-centric DACā¦
I personally experience and perceive the differential when I compare a native DSD128 product to the decimated DXD iteration of that recording being subsequently modulated to DSD128 in my playback scenario.
So, in the PS Audio thread that @matt linked, we see that the differential is related to the interpolation sample-rate when making relevant mix element edits, and this differential is semantically tied to the definition of āDSDā where apparently the HQPlayer edits are done with multi-bit PDM commonly known as āDSD-Wideā at the native sample-rate of 11.2MHz and subsequently decimated to the original 1-bit 11.2MHz sample-rateā¦ I do not doubt there is perceivable differential in the context of these forms of creative editing of a production.
HQPlayer is not a recording platform, it is being used specifically in the context of editing and mixing these esoteric stereo recordingsā¦ I see its application as a tool in a toolbox available to stereo mix and mastering engineers that are working with native 1-bit stereo PDM filesā¦ It was further illuminated in the PS Audio thread that native 1-bit PDM editing and DSP can be done at the level of a Pyramix system IF the computational platform could handle the data density of any natively recorded 1-bit multi-track encodingā¦ The question that is posed, is in the value of this in the relevant marketplace.
In the case of any of these āPure DSDā 11.2MHz recordings, the value proposition will be intrinsically tied to the appreciation of the recorded performance composition, aesthetic, etc. A stereo master analog-tape archival transfer today, may benefit from this editing if so appliedā¦ However, this is going to be a production call in the context of native 1-bit 11.2MHz analog to digital conversion (ADC).
This ānativeā DSD256 editing technique is an esoteric and incrementally valuable tool in the production process relative to the big-picture evolutionary landscape of 1-bit PDM encoded music productions in general.
Might want to have a look at the Signalyst home page for HQPlayer Pro.
In any case, check out these recordings or not, as you like.
Thanksā¦ I donāt consider its 2-channel capability, comparable to a multi-track DAW like Pyramixā¦ Itās more like a standalone 2-channel digital production toolā¦ I would like a comparison to the flow of an encoded native 1-bit 11.2MHz signal through high-end analog production tools for mixing, panning, equalization, etc, subsequently being encoded again to a 11.2MHz master encoding.
Edit:
Donāt forget that in reality, all digital-audio encodings are analog voltage pulsesā¦ the only true reference digital encoding is the encoded oneās and zeroās (1ās and 0ās) that reside on the storage media.