SMSL C100 DSD capability not detected by Audirvana

[shorty1483]

Hi!

Currently trying out Studio leaning towards to buy the yearly because I really like the handling of it because it fits so nicely with Tidal.

This is my current setting with my SMSL C100 (Specs):

I deactivated auto MQA DAC detection because when activated, Audirvana did the first unfolding job, even the DAC is capable of doing so also. With the above setting, everything is working as expected (C100 does the whole MQA process).

When I play sample DSD files (DSD64 and DSD256 in .dsf format) from my disk, they are passed to the C100 and are played with the max. Sample rate Kernel-Streaming allows. With DoP activated, no matter if 1.0 or 1.1 I get a moving progress bar but no sound.

But the only problem I recognized that Studio does not recognize the DSD capabilities of my C100 DAC seen in the screenshots above. So if I want to upsample e.g. a FLAC from Tidal to DSD256, Audirvana does not let me unfortunately because the DSD option is greyed out, even if my locally stored files play without any problems and the DAC is capable to handle up to DSD512 natively.

I installed latest XMOS Driver 5.58 for the device. Firmware is also up-to-date. How can I fix this? Can I even fix this? Thanks for your answers!

Audirvana Studio 2.6.5 (20605)

Windows 11 (22631) with 16GB physical RAM

Connected account of : XXX

NETWORK
	Status: available
	Available network interfaces:
		Ethernet ({3757bd34-d9f5-4364-bf75-c37bed718760}) is private
	Windows Defender Firewall status for this instance of Audirvana Studio
		Active profile types: all
		Private profile: 
			Firewall: enabled
			Inbound: allowed
			Outbound: allowed
			Notifications: enabled
		Public profile: 
			Firewall: enabled
			Inbound: blocked
			Outbound: allowed
			Notifications: enabled

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

	Polarity Inversion:
		Globally: OFF
		Per track: ON
	Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
	r8brain not in use
	r8brain filter parameters
	Bandwidth = 99.5%
	Stop band attenuation 218dB
	Phase linear

AUDIO VOLUME:
	Max allowed volume: 100
	Replay Gain: None
	SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
	Sync list: 1 folders
		AUTO: D:\Hi-Res
	Library database path: C:\Users\blingbling\AppData\Local\Packages\Audirvana.Audirvana-4118-9684-d80dbb7827cd_q3nymrkmej12j\LocalCache\Local\Audirvana\Audirvana\AudirvanaDatabase.sqlite

Local audio files fingerprinting
	Tracks with no MBID: 184

Remote Control server:
	Listening on fd00::7f1d:6c4f:4c9d:1989 on port 9277

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
	TIDAL:  Connected as HiFi Plus

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================


Active method: Local

Max. memory for audio buffers: 8122MB

Local Audio Engine: KernelStreaming

Preferred device: 
	SMSL C100 DAC (SMSL USB DAC)
	Model UID:TUSBAUDIO_ENUM\VID_152A&PID_85DD&REV_0351&KS
	UID:\\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{9d93f315-2b10-4db4-8644-e2c696ee009d}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}

Active Sample Rate: 48kHz

Bridge settings:
	Sample rate limitation: none
	Sample rate switching latency: none
	Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
	Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:SMSL C100 DAC (SMSL USB DAC)
	Manufacturer: XMOS
	Model name: SMSL USB AUDIO
	Model UID: TUSBAUDIO_ENUM\VID_152A&PID_85DD&REV_0351&KS
	UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{9d93f315-2b10-4db4-8644-e2c696ee009d}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
	USB Vendor ID: 0x152a
	USB Product ID: 0x85dd
	Kernel Streaming capable 

10 available sample rates up to 768000Hz
	44100
	48000
	88200
	96000
	176400
	192000
	352800
	384000
	705600
	768000

Volume Control
	Physical: No
	Virtual: No
	Max volume alert: Enabled

MQA capability
	Auto-detect MQA devices: No
	Not a MQA device, user set to MQA Decoder
DSD capability: Unhandled

Device audio channels
	Preferred stereo channels L:0 R:1
	Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
		Channel 0 mapped to 0
		Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
	Number of channels: 2
	Use as stereo device only: Yes
	Simple stereo device: No

1 output streams:
	Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
		Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
		Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 44.1kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 48kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 88.2kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 96kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 176.4kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 192kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 352.8kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 384kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 705.6kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 32bit little endian 768kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 44.1kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 48kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 88.2kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 96kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 176.4kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 192kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 352.8kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 384kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 705.6kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 24bit little endian aligned high in 32bit chunk 768kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 44.1kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 48kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 88.2kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 96kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 176.4kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 192kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 352.8kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 384kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 705.6kHz
	2 ch Integer PCM 16bit little endian 768kHz

Local devices found : 8
	Device #0: Lautsprecher (Steam Streaming Speakers)
		Manufacturer: Valve Corporation Audio DDK
		Model UID: ROOT\SteamStreamingSpeakers
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{d4046ae7-e990-43d3-9799-f760baf2d063}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Unknown model
	Device #1: Lautsprecher (Steam Streaming Microphone)
		Manufacturer: Valve Corporation Audio DDK
		Model UID: ROOT\SteamStreamingMicrophone
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{5b975b97-2bd6-4cb4-bc95-794db50f01ba}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Unknown model
	Device #2: SMSL C100 DAC (SMSL USB DAC)
		Manufacturer: XMOS
		Model UID: TUSBAUDIO_ENUM\VID_152A&PID_85DD&REV_0351&KS
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{9d93f315-2b10-4db4-8644-e2c696ee009d}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		USB Vendor ID: 0x152a
		USB Product ID: 0x85dd
		Model name: SMSL USB AUDIO
	Device #3: Audio (Realtek(R) Audio)
		Manufacturer: Realtek
		Model UID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0887&SUBSYS_104386C7&REV_1003
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{ed8ffa2b-09be-4837-9628-c2db364d5035}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Audio Device on High Definition Audio Bus
	Device #4: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek(R) Audio)
		Manufacturer: Realtek
		Model UID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0887&SUBSYS_104386C7&REV_1003
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{c60d386d-4138-4458-86e8-46a3b0465af4}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Audio Device on High Definition Audio Bus
	Device #5: Acer B246HYL (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
		Manufacturer: NVIDIA
		Model UID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10DE&DEV_009E&SUBSYS_1043883C&REV_1001
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{1a934ceb-8ac1-41a9-967a-bec102a5cf21}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Audio Device on High Definition Audio Bus
	Device #6: Acer B246HYL (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
		Manufacturer: NVIDIA
		Model UID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10DE&DEV_009E&SUBSYS_1043883C&REV_1001
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{444b3a14-1539-4556-9ac6-ddf46bc95701}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Audio Device on High Definition Audio Bus
	Device #7: Acer B246HYL (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
		Manufacturer: NVIDIA
		Model UID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10DE&DEV_009E&SUBSYS_1043883C&REV_1001
		UID: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{45ee371e-a55a-4ada-9a11-14bd33daa777}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
		Model name: Audio Device on High Definition Audio Bus

UPnP


UPnP devices found : 1
	Device #0: Fernseher Schlafzimmer
		UID: uuid:8eef9137-2135-11eb-8f13-f0e5e4a45452
		Location: http://192.168.2.123:38400/MediaServer/rendererdevicedesc.xml
		Manufacturer: 
		Model name: Renderer



Chromecast


Chromecast devices found : 0

[Agoldnear]

It appears the DAC does not support DoP based on the specifications.

[shorty1483]

Seems to be true when I compare the manual to e.g. the SU-9 manual where it’s actively advertised. But that would explain the silence when activating DoP.

Nevertheless should the settings indicate that the DAC can handle DSD up to 512 if I’m right. When Audirvana upsamples on the fly to DSD, does it produce a DoP stream or native DSD?

[Agoldnear]

Depending on your DAC input settings and up-sampling settings (To DSD) Audirvana will produce a native DSD or DoP file for output…

Settings’ → DAC Input → Direct Stream Digital (DSD) → Native DSD streaming method … choose your option.

[Jud]

@Agoldnear

Settings’ → DAC Input → Direct Stream Digital (DSD) → Native DSD streaming method … choose your option.

Here’s what Settings → DAC Input looks like in Windows 11 for me. I don’t know if this is what Shorty sees.

[Jud]

I see why my settings are different than yours - you’re using kernel streaming. What happens if you switch to ASIO?

[Agoldnear]

Thanks… good to know…

[shorty1483]

When I switch to ASIO, these are the settings:

Now when I stream a a DSD track, the output looks correct, so it seems in my inital post, the playback screenshot was incorrect regarding the fact DSD would work properly even the DAC shows no compatibility in Kernel-Streaming mode.

Wenn I activate upsampling I get the following options:

And tracks are now properly sampled to DSD256. So it seems everything’s working in ASIO mode.

Thanks guys!

[shorty1483]

One thing I recognized in ASIO mode: Tracks (with all enhancements turned off) are sent with a bitdepth of 32 Bit to the DAC, even the source file is 16 or 24 bit. Is this a problem? OR do I misread the information in Audirvana? I’m kinda new to this stuff.

ASIO:

KERNEL-STREAMING:

Output in both cases:

[Jud]

Nothing’s wrong. This is called “zero padding.” It just means that the least significant bits are filled in with zeros, and it doesn’t change anything, any more than writing “1” as “1.00000000” changes the quantity.

[shorty1483]

Is this an ASIO thing? Just curious because it doesn’t happen in Kernel Streaming mode.

[Jud]

Audirvāna does it in at least some circumstances. I would have to look to see whether it happens when I successfully play DSD over DoP. I rather doubt it, since with DoP the data is packaged for transmission to “look like” PCM.

[Agoldnear]

@shorty1483

Screenshot 2024-01-13 1054281889×103 27.1 KB

I’m curious… in this example, you are not up-sampling the first un-packing of the MQA file to a higher sample-rate like 768kHz DXD or to DSD? … Why would you not up-sample using ‘Power of Two’ or ‘To DSD’ ?

[shorty1483]

Disabled upsampling totally for testing purpose. In the long run, I am not sure if I have a real benefit of oversampling here with my setup which is not as high fidelity as some others here. Nevertheless, even with upsampling generally enabled in settings, MQA files are not upsampled here as long as I specify my DAC as MQA decoder and/or renderer in setting, what I did because my DAC is capable of it.

[Agoldnear]

There are tangibly audible technical reasons to up-sample PCM to DXD or DSD… This is a larger discussion regarding SDM (Sigma-Delta Modulation) algorithms and the parametric filter settings of r8Brain and SoX influence on the final output sound-quality and the value of 1-bit DSD signals versus PCM signals being presented to the output of the DAC architecture, depending on the nature of its output circuit design topology.

Edit:
In the case of the C100 DAC that is utilizing the AKM AK4493S chipset, (depending on how this is implemented) delivering a 1-bit DSD signal from Audirvana should provide a very satisfying output sound-quality as these are typically DSD-centric devices, however, it is ultimately dependent on how the elements of the AKM AK4493S chipset are applied in the output topology by the S.M.S.L engineering team.

[Agoldnear]

@Jud

Audirvāna does it in at least some circumstances. I would have to look to see whether it happens when I successfully play DSD over DoP. I rather doubt it, since with DoP the data is packaged for transmission to “look like” PCM.

Of course it stuffs the PCM data with zeros in-order to modulate the PCM data to the target DSD sample-rate… This is why the DoP carrier sample-rates must be relative to that of the 1-bit DSD signal it is transporting… The 1-bit PDM file is packetized so to appear as a PCM file format clocked to the appropriate sample-rate, so to deliver the 1-bit PDM signal to the DoP decoder that produces the appropriate 1-bit PDM data sample-rate to the output circuitry.

This same interpolation approach of stuffing zeros to raise the sample-rate, will be applied when up-sampling lower resolution PCM signal to a higher sample-rate PCM signal as in 16/44.1kHz to 24 or 32 bit/705.6kHz.

[Jud]

@Agoldnear

Of course it stuffs the PCM data with zeros in-order to modulate the PCM data to the target DSD sample-rate…

These are two different things. Zero padding changes word length rather than sample rate. Zero stuffing as part of sample-and-hold done during interpolation does change sample rate.

[Agoldnear]

Interpolation - dspGuru

Zero Padding

Zero Padding Applications

[Jud]

Our friend was talking about this:

@shorty1483

One thing I recognized in ASIO mode: Tracks (with all enhancements turned off) are sent with a bitdepth of 32 Bit to the DAC, even the source file is 16 or 24 bit.

Here’s Audirvana Studio on my computer with upsampling turned off:

See the 32 bits called out for the DAC on the right? (This is with a 16 bit recording.) That’s what he was asking about, not the zero stuffing that’s done with upsampling. (That type of zero stuffing is referred to as “sample and hold” or “zero order hold,” sometimes abbreviated as “ZOH.”)

The 32 bits sent to the DAC when a recording is 16 bit (thus 16 bits of zero padding) are to fill out the full 32-bit word length of each sample, not to generate more samples, since upsampling is turned off in this case.

[shorty1483]

This.

But thanks @Agoldnear for the further explanation on the chipset.

So @Jud and @Agoldnear to the interesting part. Does oversampling make sense with an average speaker/earphone setup (Logitech Z623 and Sony WH-1000XM3 via Cable)? Or is it just better to leave sample rates as they are in this configuration, because sound is already pleasing with no background noise, espacially if I’m not using any software processing of the audio streams and just using one of the builtin filters of the DAC. I’m already over 40 and I imagine I can hear a difference between Hi-res and normal music. But my feeling is that oversampling to DSD or Power of 2 for example might be too much of a good thing in this ciscumstances.