Zoom card

Diegolum · January 26, 2021, 5:12pm

Hello,
I bought Audirvana a couple of months ago and so far I have not been able to get it to work properly, I always have to restart the computer several times and also log in and out of Audirvana ten times as I have just done and I can’t get it to connect to my sound card, but sometimes it does connect and I never know why.

I have a 2013 Macbook Pro and it works on High Sierra, the sound card is a Zoom that works at 24/96. This card works fine with other applications like Ableton Live or Adobe After Effects. I don’t know what’s wrong with Audirvana but it’s hell to work with.

Sometimes it works and most of the time it doesn’t connect to the card.

Is there anyone here who knows how I can get this program to work without problems?

Sorry I’m a bit pissed off but it’s just so frustrating.

Thanks in advance
Diego

Diegolum · January 26, 2021, 5:21pm

Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.43 (3573)
macOS 10.13.6 with 16384MB RAM

Registered to Diego Martinez Bonati Diego

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX with Power Of Two upsampling
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Users/Diego/Desktop
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/Diego/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

CoreAudio audio path, buffer I/O frame size: 512

Max. memory for audio buffers: 13312MB

Local Audio Engine:
Exclusive access: Enabled
Integer mode: Enabled

Preferred device:
ZoomAudioDevice
Model UID:zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice
UID:zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001

Currently playing in standard 32bit float mode
Device: 2ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits little endian Signed Float, 8 bytes per frame 48kHz

Active Sample Rate: 48kHz
Hog Mode is on

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
ID 0x2b ZoomAudioDevice Manufacturer:zoom.us
Model UID:zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice UID:zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001

1 available sample rates up to 48000Hz
48000
Audio buffer frame size : 15 to 768 frames
Current I/O buffer frame size : 512
Volume Control
Physical: Yes
Virtual: Yes
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: Yes

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x2c 2 channels starting at 1
1 virtual formats:
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 48kHz

1 physical formats
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 48kHz

Local devices found : 8
Device #0: ID 0x7b Built-in Output Manufacturer: Apple Inc. Model UID: AppleHDA:40 UID: AppleHDAEngineOutput:1B,0,1,1:0
Device #1: ID 0x39 MJAudioRecorder Manufacturer: MJ Audio Inc. Model UID: MJRecordDeviceModelUID UID: MJRecordDevice
Device #2: ID 0x31 MMAudio Device Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID UID: MMAudioDevice
Device #3: ID 0x36 MMAudio Device (UI Sounds) Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID_UISounds UID: MMAudioDevice_UISounds
Device #4: ID 0x42 Soundflower (2ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:0
Device #5: ID 0x4d Soundflower (16ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:1
Device #6: ID 0x85 ZOOM R16_R24 Driver Manufacturer: ZOOM Corporation Model UID: ZoomR16USBAudioDevice:ZOOM R16_R24 Driver UID: ZoomR16USBAudioEngine:ZOOM Corporation:R16:14100000:0
Device #7: ID 0x2b ZoomAudioDevice Manufacturer: zoom.us Model UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001

UPnP devices found : 0

RunHomeSlow · January 26, 2021, 5:24pm

i was about to post 2 pict just before you debug here so, i guess you could see your card in Audirvana…
Try turning off Upsampling if you want less bug… then turn it on if you still need it

RunHomeSlow · January 26, 2021, 5:26pm

debug is like saying you just have one sample rate!? 48kHz

Diegolum · January 27, 2021, 7:13am

Hi, thanks for the screenshots, unfortunately I still can’t connect to my Zoom card.
I have attached a screenshot for you to see.

One of the main problems I have is that as soon as I hit play on a song then I can’t make any changes to the audio settings unless I exit and re-enter Audirvana which makes it extremely difficult to understand how all these options affect it.
I get a banner that politely says: “Please stop Playback to change audio settings” but it’s a lie, I can’t make any changes unless I reboot Audirvana, it’s completely unbearable.

It seems that my card is not supported by Audirvana unfortunately I didn’t see any notice of this before I bought it.

As you can see the card appears twice, once as a driver and once as audio devise but neither works.
Sometimes I get it to work using MMAudio devise but I don’t know if this is correct and if this way I benefit from the quality of Audirvana.

It really seems that Audirvana is in beta status and is very complex to use, I haven’t seen any warnings about this when I bought it, you can understand that one feels quite frustrated with this deal.
I have described this problem in Audirvana’s feedback forms but nobody answers.

Thank you for your help

bitracer · January 27, 2021, 7:25am

Did you hit the stop button (the square one)? The pause won’t do, you need to hit the stop button to change the device settings.

Diegolum · January 27, 2021, 7:30am

I see, I was using the pause button I didn’t realise there was a specific button for stop, thanks now if I can change the audio settings without having to exit the program that helps.

I still can’t use my card but at least I can investigate the possibilities without leaving Audirvana.

Thanks

bitracer · January 27, 2021, 7:40am

Reduce the pre-load cache size to 4000MB and disable the upsampling.

Diegolum · January 27, 2021, 8:00am

Hi, I have adjusted the settings you suggest, so far I can only get Audirvana to send audio to my card via USB if I use MMAudio devise but if I try to use the Zoom Audio devise then it sends nothing.

I would like to know if by using the MMAudio devise I am taking full advantage of the quality of Audirvana?

Thanks in advance

bitracer · January 27, 2021, 8:05am

Yes you do, it always plays bit-perfect.

Diegolum · January 27, 2021, 9:05am

Hi, here is the new debug info.

Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.43 (3573)
macOS 10.13.6 with 16384MB RAM

Registered to Diego Martinez Bonati Diego

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX not in use
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Users/Diego/Desktop
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/Diego/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

CoreAudio audio path, buffer I/O frame size: 4096

Max. memory for audio buffers: 4008MB

Local Audio Engine:
Exclusive access: Enabled
Integer mode: Enabled

Preferred device:
MMAudio Device
Model UID:MMAudioDeviceModelUID
UID:MMAudioDevice

Currently playing in standard 32bit float mode
Device: 2ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits little endian Signed Float, 8 bytes per frame 96kHz

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz
Hog Mode is on

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
ID 0x31 MMAudio Device Manufacturer:MMAudio Device contributors
Model UID:MMAudioDeviceModelUID UID:MMAudioDevice

1 available sample rates up to 96000Hz
96000
Audio buffer frame size : 14 to 4096 frames
Current I/O buffer frame size : 4096
Volume Control
Physical: Yes
Virtual: Yes
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: Yes

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x32 2 channels starting at 1
1 virtual formats:
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 96kHz

1 physical formats
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 96kHz

Local devices found : 8
Device #0: ID 0x7b Built-in Output Manufacturer: Apple Inc. Model UID: AppleHDA:40 UID: AppleHDAEngineOutput:1B,0,1,1:0
Device #1: ID 0x39 MJAudioRecorder Manufacturer: MJ Audio Inc. Model UID: MJRecordDeviceModelUID UID: MJRecordDevice
Device #2: ID 0x31 MMAudio Device Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID UID: MMAudioDevice
Device #3: ID 0x36 MMAudio Device (UI Sounds) Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID_UISounds UID: MMAudioDevice_UISounds
Device #4: ID 0x42 Soundflower (2ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:0
Device #5: ID 0x4d Soundflower (16ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:1
Device #6: ID 0x85 ZOOM R16_R24 Driver Manufacturer: ZOOM Corporation Model UID: ZoomR16USBAudioDevice:ZOOM R16_R24 Driver UID: ZoomR16USBAudioEngine:ZOOM Corporation:R16:14100000:0
Device #7: ID 0x2b ZoomAudioDevice Manufacturer: zoom.us Model UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001

UPnP devices found : 0

bitracer · January 27, 2021, 9:21am

These are prosumer audio devices. If you only have those it’s fine, but as far as audio performance goes, you’re better off with an audiophile grade DACs in the same price range.

Sometimes there are issues with such devices, as those require special drivers and such.

Diegolum · January 27, 2021, 4:43pm

I understand that Zoom R16 is a full-featured digital mixer so its DAC is probably not that good as it has to offer a lot of other things.

Please do you know of a DAC around 300€ that works well with Audirvana, or perhaps you can point me to a post where this has already been discussed?

bitracer · January 27, 2021, 9:09pm

Check out SMSL:

https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/548.html

Diegolum · January 29, 2021, 9:37am

Since I bought Audirvana it has opened up a world of audio quality, it’s really fantastic and combined with Tidal-like streaming it’s really powerful. But at the same time it has filled me with doubts as to whether my hardware audio setup is good or can be improved.

For this reason I have made a series of points on which I currently have doubts.

Card: I have a Zoom R16 card which is a good digital mixing console but it seems that as a card it is not very good according to @bitracer the M300 MKⅡ Audio DAC is much better and is at a very affordable price. It has convinced me but I see that the output cables are balanced XLR and at this point when I started looking for cables I have seen that there is a whole world I need them 5 meters and I have seen them from 15€ to 260€ the same price as the card! So here comes the first question:

-What characteristics do the cables have to have so that the audio quality is minimally respected?

My Speakers are self amplified and have XLR input : https://mackie.com/products/srm-v-class-series-high-performance-powered-loudspeakers

So far they are great but when we put Audirvana they have improved a lot with more volume and a bit warmer and more pleasant bass. Here comes the second question:

-As these are not proper HIFI speakers, will these audio card improvements and better cables be noticeable?

Sorry for the long post, I don’t really know much about the audiophile world but I love music and listening to it well is a pleasure.

Thanks in advance,
Diego

bitracer · January 29, 2021, 9:51am

That’s difficult to answer, but I wouldn’t go crazy with the cables. Any cheap but decent cable will do.

Check out the Worlds Best Cables:

You’re more likely to notice the better DAC than the speaker cable.

Diegolum · February 3, 2021, 6:48am

Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.44 (3574)
macOS 10.13.6 with 16384MB RAM

Registered to Diego Martinez Bonati Diego

SIGNAL PROCESSING:

Polarity Inversion:
	Globally: OFF
	Per track: ON
Effects plugins NOT ACTIVE

UPSAMPLING:
SoX not in use
SoX filter parameters
Bandwidth at 0dB = 99.5
Filter max length = 30000
Anti-aliasing = 100
Phase = 66

AUDIO VOLUME:
Max allowed volume: 100
Replay Gain: None
SW volume control: OFF

LIBRARY SETTINGS:
Sync list: 1 folders
AUTO: /Users/Diego/Desktop
iTunes/Music library synchronization: not synchronized
Library database path: /Users/Diego/Library/Application Support/Audirvana/AudirvanaPlusDatabaseV2.sqlite

ACTIVE STREAMING SERVICES
TIDAL: Connected as HIFI

=================== AUDIO DEVICE ========================

CoreAudio audio path, buffer I/O frame size: 512

Max. memory for audio buffers: 4008MB

Local Audio Engine:
Exclusive access: Enabled
Integer mode: Enabled

Preferred device:
SMSL USB AUDIO
Model UID:SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD
UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:14100000:1

Currently playing in Integer Mode:
Device: 2ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits little endian Signed Integer, 8 bytes per frame 96kHz

Active Sample Rate: 96kHz
Hog Mode is on

Bridge settings:
Sample rate limitation: none
Sample rate switching latency: none
Limit bitdepth to 24bit: OFF
Mute during sample rate change: OFF

Selected device:
Local audio device
ID 0x1ad SMSL USB AUDIO Manufacturer:SMSL
Model UID:SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:14100000:1

10 available sample rates up to 768000Hz
44100
48000
88200
96000
176400
192000
352800
384000
705600
768000
Audio buffer frame size : 14 to 4096 frames
Current I/O buffer frame size : 512
Volume Control
Physical: Yes
Virtual: Yes
MQA capability
Auto-detect MQA devices: No
Not a MQA device, user set to not MQA
DSD capability: Unhandled
Device audio channels
Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
Channel bitmap: Ox3, layout:
Channel 0 mapped to 0
Channel 1 mapped to 1

Audio channels in use
Number of channels: 2
Use as stereo device only: No
Simple stereo device: Yes

1 output streams:
Number of active channels: 2, in 1 stream(s)
Channel #0 :Stream 0 channel 0
Channel #1 :Stream 0 channel 1

Stream ID 0x1ae 2 channels starting at 1
20 virtual formats:
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Float 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz

20 physical formats
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 768kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 705.6kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 384kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 352.8kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 192kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 176.4kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 96kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 88.2kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 48kHz
2 ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32 little endian Signed Integer 44.1kHz

Local devices found : 8
Device #0: ID 0x153 Built-in Output Manufacturer: Apple Inc. Model UID: AppleHDA:40 UID: AppleHDAEngineOutput:1B,0,1,1:0
Device #1: ID 0x1ad SMSL USB AUDIO Manufacturer: SMSL Model UID: SMSL USB AUDIO:152A:85DD UID: AppleUSBAudioEngine:SMSL:SMSL USB AUDIO:14100000:1
Device #2: ID 0x1a4 MJAudioRecorder Manufacturer: MJ Audio Inc. Model UID: MJRecordDeviceModelUID UID: MJRecordDevice
Device #3: ID 0x19c MMAudio Device Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID UID: MMAudioDevice
Device #4: ID 0x1a1 MMAudio Device (UI Sounds) Manufacturer: MMAudio Device contributors Model UID: MMAudioDeviceModelUID_UISounds UID: MMAudioDevice_UISounds
Device #5: ID 0x18b Soundflower (2ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:0
Device #6: ID 0x164 Soundflower (16ch) Manufacturer: ma++ ingalls for Cycling '74 Model UID: com_cycling74_driver_SoundflowerDevice:Soundflower UID: SoundflowerEngine:1
Device #7: ID 0x196 ZoomAudioDevice Manufacturer: zoom.us Model UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice UID: zoom.us.zoomaudiodevice.001

UPnP devices found : 0

Diegolum · February 3, 2021, 7:02am

Hi,

I finally got the SMSL M300 DAC, it’s amazing the sound quality and the separation of the instruments, some friends even asked me if I had bought new speakers. The difference with the Zoom card that I have already specified in this post before is huge, it sounds like a High End studio. Thank you very much for this good and inexpensive advice @bitracer.

Now I have attached a screenshot where you can see that Audirvana is playing a 192kHz track from Tidal in streaming but Audirvana is playing it at 96kHz.

Is there a reason for this or is there something I should do as Audirvana never seems to go above 96kHz even though the tracks have more?

I’ve included debug info.

Thanks in advance
Diego

Antoine · February 3, 2021, 7:50am

Audirvana 3.5 integrates the MQA Core Decoder that performs the first unfolding (up to 88.2 or 96kHz) to benefit from the high resolution of the MQA audio files even without an MQA audio device. By MQA decision, the second unfolding (to 176.4 or 192kHz) can be performed only in a MQA renderer/decoder DAC.

Non MQA capable audio devices can benefit from the high resolution (doubled sample rate compared to the encoded file one) thanks to the MQA decoder integrated in Audirvana 3.
In this case, Audirvana brings, in addition to the general Sound Quality improvement, the decoding of the MQA file that would be played only at little above CD quality otherwise, losing all its high resolution benefits. Note that decoding the signal beyond twice the sampling rate of the encoded file (for the few rare recordings actually made above 96kHz) can only be done in a DAC MQA.

You then need to leave “Not MQA decoder” for your DAC in the Audio Settings, so that Audirvana performs the MQA decoding.

If you have a DAC that is “MQA decoder” then, you can select MQA decoder. That means that no audio processing done in Audirvana, as the DAC is doing all of the MQA decoding.
If you have a DAC that is “MQA renderer” then, you can select MQA renderer. That means MQA first unfolding done in Audirvana, and no other audio processing as the DAC is doing the other unfolding

The Blue color means that the file is “Studio authenticated”.
The Green color is for other MQA audio file.

Diegolum · February 3, 2021, 8:49am

Hi Damien, thank you for your detailed explanation.

For 16/44.1kHz tracks is upsampling recommended? I have seen that some users recommend to have it disabled.
Is it possible to have upsampling activated but not affecting the MQA tracks?
Which one of the upscaling options is the best for 16/44.1kHz?
Thanks
Diego